[00:00:00] Speaker A: Into the Fold is part of the Texas Podcast Network, the Conversations Changing the World, brought to you by the University of Texas at Austin. The opinions expressed in this podcast represent the views of the hosts and guests and not of the University of Texas at Austin. Hi, welcome to into the Fold, the mental health podcast. I'm your host, Ike Evans, and today we're delighted to bring you episode 170, building a resilient Future. What's next for mental health advocacy?
This is part two of a conversation which actually began last episode.
We want to know from those doing the work what feels different about doing mental health policy in 2025. For those of you who missed it from episode 169, here's a look back.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: And this is what gives me hope. Like, I kind of have just. I have hope a lot. And last session when no one said that this bill would pass for the medical transportation because it was for women who were incarcerated, a population that's very much oppressed and hardly thought about or even considered because they just get grouped in with the men and they very much have less opportunities than the men. So for them to have a bill passed that was specifically recognizing their own struggles and then having women in our with lioness to be able to go there and speak their truth, that type of companion campaigning to like, bring awareness and then also bring them to the Capitol was.
Was pretty phenomenal.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: The voice that you just heard belongs to Mandy Zapata of Texas Civil Rights Project.
That was from episode 169 titled Navigating Systemic Shifts. Policy changes that impact mental health care.
In that episode, we were treated to a Preview of the 2025 Texas Legislative Session that also answers a guiding question. What are the most significant recent policy changes impacting mental health care in Texas? And what can any of us do to influence that process?
For this episode, we continue that conversation and have brought back not only Mandy Zapata, but but her two co panelists from that prior episode, Noah Jones of Texas Counseling association and Maya Volk of Disability Rights Texas.
This time we're focusing more on the personal stakes of doing policy work in a challenging environment.
But that's not all. In a bonus segment, we revisit a conversation from 2023 about girls empowerment Network and what their experience has to teach us about the future of public policy. So I take you now to my interview with Mandy, Noah and Maya. The emotional challenges of doing policy work, dealing with whatever headwinds that you deal with. And I'd just love to know more about any feelings of frustration or fatigue, burnout and what resiliency strategies you have developed for yourselves that kind of help you to keep going. And in particular, if you have any real stories about, about either one of those.
So, Noah, maybe we'll pass the ball to you for that.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: I'm a student of Texas history and the thing that I keep saying to myself over and over again is the long arc of Texas is not yet over. There is still work to be done. The story of this state is nowhere close to being over with, which means that we have time to get our 2 cents in about stuff.
So even if during this session your bill doesn't get passed, there are sessions that are coming in the future. There is always going to be a time and a place to talk about these issues and to get them out there to people.
And there will be times during this session one of our bills is going to fail. I'm sure of it. Not tca's bills, we're going to pass them all. But there will be bills for some people that are going to not pass this session.
But you have to look at the positives. You have to find some little bit of incremental progress. Maybe it's one lawmaker's mind you change, maybe it's one staff member's mind you changed on something.
But the end is not over with. There is always a tomorrow with this stuff, 100%.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: I love that. I love that. And I think that's something that is so important when it comes to maintaining that positivity is the people you surround yourself with and making sure that you all have like minded and, you know, agendas and like intentions. So you're very intentional with who you surround yourself with and making sure that that positive atmosphere is something that you can have with the people that you are networking with and, you know, feeding into each other and lifting each other up. Because your support system is always going to play a part when you have mental health in any type of aspect or fatigued because they're going to be the ones to help lift you up when you're down. And I very much always am grateful for my community. I know that as someone with my history and even. And I have to talk about Linus, because this is just the perfect example is we had some girls. I might start crying because I was so touched by this. There was a sunset hearing, I think it was in December, and we had girls for the first time go and testify. And it was about four of them. And each one of them had. Each one of them had done over 20 years in prison. And they had been incarcerated young, like 16, 17. And it was just so beautiful to see them go and sit in front of the committee and speak their truth, even if it was hard for them to get through what they were trying to say. And then as each one of them walked out, our girls got together and made sure to surround with love, hug them, and let them know that we were so proud of them. And I think that that type of vulnerability isn't talked about enough when people go up there to do testimonies and making sure that you're comforting each other, when you're putting yourself in front of people who will just look at you or judge you or, you know, not really understand where you're coming from. But you still were able to have a voice. And so I very much would recommend that for your mental health to have a good community base with you.
[00:06:59] Speaker D: Echo that 100%. For me, I'll share something more like a tool that I like to use. So as part of social work school, I learned about trauma informed care. I learned about trust based relational interventions, and I learned about the neurosequential model. And those are all big jargony words, but essentially, I learned brain science. And I learned about what happens to your brain when you become dysregulated, when something, you know, elevates your stress hormones. And then you can't think clearly, right? You're in your fight or flight instinct, and you got to calm yourself down if you want to think clearly again. And so I learned all of these tools. And then I was working at a Title 1 elementary school in East Austin, and I was teaching my kids these tools, right? Teaching them how to regulate themselves, teaching them how to mindful breathing, teaching them different sensory things that they can do to calm themselves down. And then in that role, for the first time, I had to see some pretty challenging situations, like kiddos with suicidal ideation and needing to make CPS reports as a mandated reporter. And I found myself dysregulated a lot of the time. And I literally started using the same exact tools that I was teaching my kiddos. The mindful breathing exercises, even the fidgets, just to give myself some sensory input and recognize and understand when I was dysregulated and calm myself down. And now in this role, I use those same tools when I'm about to testify, when I'm about to walk into an important meeting with a legislative office, and I try to be aware of what's happening in my body. And understanding that brain science has been really, really helpful for Me in that.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Okay. I mean, do you ever struggle not to take it personally when there's any sort of resistance or opposition either to mental health initiatives in general or your own particular policy priorities?
[00:09:09] Speaker D: Yeah, I find for myself, I take things personally a lot also. I just think, like, as a woman in an environment working in an environment that was built for men, like, it's pretty harsh and, you know, in a lot of ways, women are socialized to take things personally. And so I've been dealing with this a lot, but earlier in the episode, I said, you know, I'm gonna do my best. And if I do my best, like, that's. I should feel good about that. Like, that is my mantra going into this session, especially when I face opposition and I, you know, want to take things personally or start to. It's like, I'm doing my best. The best is all I can do. How other people react to that, you know, I can try to do my best to make it so people receive our policies well. But, you know, not everyone's going to agree and got to just, you know, did I do my best? Yes. Like, the rest has to kind of be, you know, water off a duck's back or, you know, whatever that phrase is.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yes. No, and I would actually just say that. I would reference what Noah had said earlier. When it comes to. And the only reason why I use to take a lot of things personally, but through therapy and like, just being able to, like, recognize it with my own mental health disorder and my medication and stuff like that, is that I have to focus most on the fact that there will be a tomorrow. Like, if I focus on everything, that if I don't get my way right now, then it would be detrimental. But you always have to focus on the, you know what? It's not over. It's just not done yet. And so that's kind of the mentality that I try to maintain when things don't go my way or if I don't get the results that I want, even if someone doesn't agree with me about a situation, I will just be like, you know what?
Not today. He didn't agree today. But you never know. You just kind of keep. You got to keep showing up. You got to keep, you know, letting them see who you are and being the example of resilience and being the example of the change that you want to see.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: It's a lot of people's first reaction and, you know, justify to take things personally when they don't go right for them, especially in the political world because a lot of people's personal lives are tied so intertwined with their politics, especially nowadays.
But we are in a really special place because there's a lot of people that are relying on us to take the next step after that to see past the personal part of it and move it into the next area, which is, okay, that didn't happen. What can we do next? There's, like you said, there's always a next step. It's never finished. It's just not done yet.
So that's kind of where I have to be. We are paid, paid be proud to be people who are out there moving beyond the personal and into the reality of it. Not that personal is not a reality, but that we have to figure out the solutions for when something doesn't happen.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Okay, so I'm going to get you all out of here on this final question. Just anything, resources wise, information, or for those who are listening, who want to learn more about your work, how they can support it that you'd like to share or tell them about.
And let's just go around clockwise, starting with Noah.
[00:12:48] Speaker C: Sure.
If anyone's listening this and you feel like this politics is hopeless in the state of Texas because things aren't going the way you think.
Please do not give up hope. I understand that that sometimes the default response for people, and I fully understand it. But there's a lot of good people out there who agree with you. It doesn't matter what letter happens to come after their name on the legislative list and stuff. But not all issues are red and blue. Sometimes issues are just common sense to people. And luckily mental health has started to become one of those issues.
If you happen to be a counselor listening, join the Texas Counseling Association. We would love to have you. We're the professional home for counselors in Texas. You get advocacy work from lovely people like me and you get education credits as well. So I will be advertising that 100%.
And Best Resources, your best resource is to make sure that you have a life outside of politics. It's really easy to get yourself 100% invested in this work because of how important it is. But just make sure it takes some time for yourself. Invest in your friends, invest in your family.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Beautiful.
He said that so well.
So if I had to give, if I had to give a little lasting note to someone or people, whoever is listening, then I actually would do a call to action. I think that if you want to create change, you have to be part of the change that you want to see. And I know that not Everyone might not agree on what that change looks like, but start having those conversations. You know, everyone is very opinionated after a situation occurs. But if we could prevent that by having just conversations with our family members, our legislators, our people in our district, our mayors, we can start very much in our own communities and then hit the state capitol together. And I think that, you know, if you need to know more resources as far as the data, don't assume that you know what's going on within the penal system or what. What's going on within your, you know, your county. Investigate it. There's things that ha. That are happening right underneath our noses that we're unaware of. And be mindful that when you have an opinion, whether it's.
It's always bipartisan, when it has to do with humans, and we're all humans and we all have emotions and we all have feelings, and just be mindful that it might not affect you directly, but it might affect a generation that comes from you. And just. I would just definitely keep all of that in mind and just make sure that you not only look at your own perspective, but try to see other people's perspectives when you are educating and having an opinion about anything that has to do with policies or laws.
And with that being said, I would also like to do a little pitch for Texas Civil Rights Project. I know that a lot of people talk about how everyone has a right to do this and a right to do that. And let's be mindful that we don't ever want to take anyone's civil rights because there was already so much that was fought behind that that we would hate to have to go backwards. We need to keep moving forward and we need to keep fighting for what's right.
[00:15:55] Speaker D: Yeah, I echo both of those sentiments. I think if you aren't involved yet in advocacy, but are interest and maybe feel intimidated, the system is designed to feel intimidating.
There's not a certain amount that you need to know about a particular policy or to be a policy wonk to have your voice be heard. That lived experience, once again, is the most important thing.
And also I think for people with disabilities. People with disabilities experience mental health challenges at higher rates and utilize services more, but face more challenges to accessing those services. So, you know, a resource for folks with disabilities, Disability Rights Texas. It's our state's protection and advocacy agency for people with disabilities in our state. And we provide legal assistance to people who are having their civil rights violated. And we educate policymakers, we inform people about their rights, we offer case management services. So, you know, look us up, Google us.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Okay. Maya, Mandy Noah, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. We really do appreciate it.
[00:17:13] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:17:14] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: It was fun.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: So I hope that you enjoyed that conversation. If you want to know more about any of those organizations, I highly encourage you to Visit their websites, I.e. disability rights, Texas Texas Counseling association and Texas Civil Rights Project.
And you can also visit the Hogg foundation website, hogg utexas Edu to learn a lot more about the work of our policy fellows and the Hogg Foundation's investment in policy policy at a more general level. And now for our bonus segment, Girls Empowerment Network, a former recipient of a Hogg Foundation Policy Fellow grant seeks to ignite the power in girls by teaching them the skills to thrive and believe and I'm quoting in their ability to be unstoppable. In this conversation from 2023, Hogg Policy Fellow Anna O'Quinn is joined by her policy mentor, Sarah Miller. Fellows, not only to shed light on what unstoppability for girls looks like in the policy and advocacy context, but also and in the process providing one answer to our guiding question for this episode. Coming to you in the year 2025, how do we build a more resilient future through policy? So I take you back now to that conversation. Next question for both of you.
And I guess we're sort of shifting focus to the particular state of affairs here in Texas with everything that is going on.
In what particular ways are the voices of girls especially needed right now?
[00:19:17] Speaker E: Yeah, I can go first.
We're only nine days into session and we've been keeping an eye on what bills are being filed and there's already enormous amount of bills that really intimately affect the lives of girls. So just some examples of this. We've seen bills around menstrual equity, bills around contraception and sex education and school and also ethnic study for girls. And I just really want to highlight that bills not only are going to be ineffective if we're not incorporating the voice of girls and the voice of youth, but they're actually going to become harmful to the very youth we're trying to help. So I think really it's key that policymakers are listening to not just youth opinions, but youth ideas, youth collaboration, and really highlighting that and prioritizing that in the bill making process.
[00:20:02] Speaker D: Thanks so much, Anna.
One of the things that we've really learned is that there aren't a lot of organizations in Texas that are teaching youth advocacy skills. There are certainly some, but That's a really unique space. We've been able to expand our work in last session, having the privilege of having some of our first cohort of Spark Change facilitators testify.
It has been some of the most powerful experiences I've had working in policy work for, at this point, over a decade.
I genuinely believe that the vast majority of our legislators are doing their jobs because they want to make an impact in their communities. And I've seen the way that they respond positively and the way that they are so deeply engaged when youth are doing advocacy, when girls are doing advocacy about the issues that affect them the most. And I really believe that the more that youth and girls are able to talk about the issues that matter to them, the way that bills are going to impact their lives, the better.
[00:21:07] Speaker E: Youth.
[00:21:08] Speaker D: Mental health, youth or educational systems, the better state we're going to create. As long as we're listening to the voices and the needs of those who are going to be most impacted by those policies.
[00:21:20] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Okay.
And Anna, one question that I think I'm pretty fond of asking my guests, in some way, shape or form, what from your own personal background and experience, are you hoping to infuse into your Work for Girls Empowerment Network?
[00:21:46] Speaker E: Totally. I love this question, too.
As I was thinking about this question, first and foremost, the lens that I really used look at the world is through my background as a social worker. So I'm a licensed master social worker. And in my work of girls and just in my life, I'm always going to be looking at things and thinking about them through values like dignity and worth of the person. I'm going to be thinking about social justice, looking at how power impacts relationships. And one thing I really appreciate about girls is their culture really aligns with those values really well. And so that's the first thing I'm always going to be bringing to a job.
Also, one really impactful experience was where I got my undergrad in social work, which was from Baylor University. Spent a lot of my free time while I was at Baylor with youth and teens. I was always at a camp in the summer, and when I was not at camp, I was volunteering with something related to youth and teens. And I had a really wonderful professor in my life, Dr. Stephanie Boddy. She's one of the people who made me realize how powerful mentorship is, which also was a big part of girls programming. And she identified a research opportunity. There's a think tank in D.C. called the center for Public justice, and they were asking for research proposals from students to help Write reports on really complex federal policy topics. I would have never applied and I would have been terrified. But she really encouraged me. Because of her encouragement, I was accepted and I spent. At the beginning, it was a semester, but it became almost a two year project that's still continuing with other students now. And we studied SNAP benefits and specifically how SNAP benefits were impacting the lives of teens. Now as I was doing my research, I realized that these teens that I was developing relationships with through my volunteer experiences were all using EBT cards. And we're all navigating really complicated decisions and we're being really innovative about how they dealt with food. So I thought, why am I writing a research paper on SNAP when I'm interacting with these teens that have all this experience? So we pivoted our project and we changed it to a community based research project. We use something called photovoice. So teens actually took pictures of experiences around their relationship with food, and then we used those as data. So the teens became the researchers themselves. And we did a focus group with them when we asked them, what ideas would you have to make SNAP and EBT cards more accessible to you? And they just had a wealth of ideas way better than I could have ever come up with. And that was really what solidified my passion in realization that teen voice in the political process is so key and it's so transformative for everyone involved. So after that, I knew I wanted to be a part of policy work. So I went to UT Hook em Horns and got my master's in social work. That really equipped me with the skills that I needed to be able to advocate on a policy level. While I was there, I interned with NAMI Texas, which was my first legislative experience. And I had a wonderful experience there that's been really helpful with just key tools and kind of knowing how the legislative process works, the ins and outs and the behind the scenes with that. But before I started working, it was important for me that I had a year of work experience that was outside of school and outside of the policy space, because I wanted to see what it looks like to do a little bit more direct service. And so I was privileged to work for a year with the consortium. It's a program, and this is a mouthful called tchat. It stands for Texas Child Health Access Through Telemedicine. And what's great about TCHAT is it's actually a program that was started by the 86th legislature, and its goal is to increase access to mental health services. And so I was our referrals coordinator, an important note with TCHAT is it's really high quality and free mental health care, but it's short term. And so I was in charge of taking all the students from the 25 school districts and finding them long term care. So that was partnering with local mental health care authorities, play therapy, therapists, higher levels of care, anything you can think of. And every day at work I felt like I was working the most difficult job I could have worked. And not because my coworkers weren't lovely and the program wasn't phenomenal, but I was realizing that there's just not enough mental health services in Texas for youth. And so it's been really helpful as I worked in mental health space. That's one of our policy priorities at Girls to acknowledge those gaps. And it's really great to see a program and work for a program that the legislature created that has done so much good, but realizing that there's still more work to be done and it just helped me understand what does policy look like on the ground and I've really been able to bring that and that's been really unique experience.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: To find out more about Girls Empowerment Network and what they have done since their Policy Fellow Grant from the Hogg foundation, you should visit their
[email protected].
that does it for this episode. We're so glad that you could join us. Production assistance by Kate Rooney, Darrell Wiggins and Anna Harris. And thanks as always to the Hogg foundation for its support. For all of those listening. I hope that at least some part of you felt seen during our conversation today. And my challenge to you is to take at least one thing that you learned and put it to good use in your life, your work, or your community. And then to drop us a line at End of the Fold at Austin UTexas. Edu. We would love to know how this conversation impacted you and anything that you might be doing to further the conversation or anything that you might be doing to carry the lessons forward for the benefit of those who you care about. Please leave us a review. Subscribe to us on the podcast app of your choice. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Tune in, or wherever you get your podcasts. Taking us out now is Anna's Good Vibes by our friend Anna Harris. Thanks for joining us.
