[00:00:00] Speaker A: Into the Fold is part of the Texas Podcast Network, the Conversations Changing the World brought to you by the University of Texas at Austin. The opinions expressed in this podcast represent the views of the hosts and guests and not of the University of Texas at Austin.
Before we begin, a quick note that the Hogg foundation has an open funding opportunity for the library's Supporting Community Mental Health initiative.
To learn more about this opportunity, visit our website at hogg utexas. Edu Funding Opportunities and now we bring you episode 189 of into the Fold.
There are places we have to be.
Work, school, home, and then there are places we choose to be.
Places where we can sit without pressure, connect without expectation.
Simply exist alongside other people.
Sociologists call these third spaces.
They're libraries, parks, community centers, coffee shops, even bars.
But they're also something more.
They're where belonging takes shape, often quietly, often invisibly, but with real impact on how we experience the world and each other.
In a time when loneliness and disconnection are rising, these spaces may be more essential than ever.
Not just as amenities, but as part of our mental health infrastructure.
Hi, welcome to into the Fold, the mental health podcast. I'm Mike Evans and I'm glad to have you with us as we continue our season long exploration of growing capacity for change.
This episode is part two of our research, innovation and education arc.
Over these three episodes, we focus on how individuals, organizations and communities bridge the gap between research and practice, exploring how promising ideas are tested, refined and implemented in real world settings for today. Designing Belonging Third Spaces as Mental Health
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Infrastructure Third spaces or third places are not exactly the same as public spaces. It's about the quality of interactions in those spaces. Open and inviting, comfortable and informal. You feel like you belong there.
It's convenient so you can visit there often. It's unpretentious so you're not feeling like you have to fit in. You can just walk in. There are regulars, so people that you see and conversation is the main activity.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: Simone Till, my former colleague at the Hogg foundation, brings a lens grounded in mental health systems, thinking and community well being.
And Hannah Terrell, director of the Austin Public Library, who leads one of the most visible and accessible third space systems in our city.
A network of spaces that serve people across ages, backgrounds and life experiences. Welcome to both of you.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:03:35] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: So let's start with the concept itself, Simone. When we talk about third spaces, what do we mean and why are they so important?
When we think about mental health and well being.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's a very Broad question, so I'm going to try my best.
But first is that when we talk about where we spend our lives, we usually think of two primary domains. We think of our home and then the second place, which is work.
But oftentimes something that's overlooked is the third place.
I think in this episode we're going to be using both third place and space.
I've seen online people use both terms, but they mean the same thing. But that framework was coined by American sociologists Ray Oldenburg, which he defines the casual social environment separate from both domestic life and employment. And he defined this in his book the Great Good Place after moving to the suburbs in Florida.
And that really resonated with me. I grew up in Florida where there wasn't a lot of third spaces. So I thought, oh, how funny. But basically he saw there's a lack of cafes, churches, bars, clubs, libraries, gyms, etc. And a common misconception is that third spaces or third places are not exactly the same as public spaces. It's about the quality of interactions in those spaces.
So what's interesting is that Oldenburg actually defines a little bit more of what a third place is. And I'm just going to read very briefly the characteristics, but he defined it as open and inviting, comfortable and informal. You feel like you belong there.
It's convenient, so you can visit there often. It's unpretentious, so you're not feeling like you have to fit in. You can just walk in. There are regulars, so people that you see and conversation is the main activity. So people are there, relax after work, have a good time. And it's in their neighborhood. They get to know people and build communities.
So that's why I'm super excited to have Hannah here, because I remember my first weekend ever in Austin. I moved about three, three years ago, and the first weekend I had to study for a math boot camp for ut.
If you know, you know. But my classmates actually invited me to study with them at the Austin Central Library.
And I haven't been before. And I don't drive. I have a disability, so I don't drive. But I was able to easily take the bus, get to the library.
And I was just mind blown how beautiful of a space it is, how welcoming it was.
And we were in a conference room and it had like a nice TV on the wall you can plug in your computer.
I was like, wow, this is for free. It's so fancy. Like, I'm not used to that kind of a space for, you know, that's Open to the public.
And I had such an amazing time getting to know people the first weekend I was in Austin. And so that's actually part of why I fell in love with Austin so quickly, that there's so many third spaces that. Where I can connect with others.
Yeah. So I would stop there. But I just want to share that with you, Hannah, that I was just mind blown with the library.
[00:07:19] Speaker C: That's fascinating. Thank you for sharing that, Simone.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So Hannah, from your perspective at the public library, how do you see this idea of a third space show up in your life? And what do you observe in how people use library spaces?
[00:07:35] Speaker C: I am in awe at the way that Simone kind of described third spaces and our libraries.
The Austin Public Library is a multi branch system, so we do have 24 locations.
Simone does describe our flagship. And let me make a shameless plug that last week we were part of the Time magazines. I don't know if you saw it, Simone.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Yes, I did. Oh my gosh.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Top 25 buildings in the United States as the America celebrates its 250.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: As it celebrates its 250 year anniversary.
Different architects and just different professionals were able to nominate.
And a Eric Klinenberg.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah, Kleinberg.
[00:08:40] Speaker C: Kleinberg out of New York nominated our library. And it made the top 25 buildings that kind of define America when you look at a portrait of America.
So right here in Austin, Texas, our own flagship library I'm talking about with the likes of the Empire State Building was chosen.
And I think that is appropriate for this conversation that we're talking about. And so thank you for sharing that, Simone.
I think that that kind of speaks. There were, there were a few different libraries on the list. But it's really striking that a public library, right.
Not one that was built 150 years ago, but one that was only built, you know, nine years ago made that list.
And it was described as a palace for the people. So I think that that's very appropriate for this conversation because I think that the way in which our spaces, public libraries, our larger urban public libraries, specifically arcana, have been redefined.
When we think about. And the Austin public library turns 100 this year, another shameless plug. But we are celebrating our centennial.
And when I think about the evolution of places, spaces like our public library institutions, and I think about how the society used them, it has evolved over time. And I won't go through the history of our public libraries, but it has been an evolution where we are now. Thank you Simone for kind of talking about where that concept came from.
But it is, it is where we are now. We have not always been there, where we have been considered a third space. And I want to add one more kind of note I would like to underscore, and that is voluntary, the thing about a third space, as Simone, as you, you know, pointed out, first space being home, second space being work, third spaces being these places that are free, accessible, open, and you choose to go there.
So I just want to, wanted to point that out.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Okay. So, I mean, yeah, it's striking how something as simple as just having a place to sit without pressure, and in particular what you said, Simone, about the pressure to present in a certain way can have such a profound impact on well, being.
If we think of third spaces as part of mental health infrastructure, then design really matters. And so, I mean, what are the elements that make a space feel welcoming, safe and truly inclusive? And I'll start with you, Simone.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think first of all, something that's important to bring up is something that's called the mirror effect, where I think a lot of times commercial spaces, they try to attempt to create a third space, and I call them like the Apple Store cafes, where there's not a lot of seating, doesn't seem very comfortable.
And yes, they're trying to cater to the community, but they're just not hitting that spot. You go grab your $8 coffee, you leave and you never return again. It's just not, it doesn't, it kind of feels hollow.
And so I think the difference is that first of all, the belonging aspect, it has to be intentional. It has to represent the community. And so the mirror effect is basically when you walk in that space, do you feel represented that this space is where you can connect with regulars and get to know people, or is it just a space where people open up their laptop, they don't talk to each other and then they're gone.
And so what's sad too, I also actually want to bring up real quick is that I believe it was like 75% of Americans do not have a third place or are even unfamiliar with the term due to like online shopping. You can get everything to your place nowadays.
And that just shows you how important it is to create a third space. And it doesn't even have to be the fanciest location. It's again about intentional belonging. And so to get into that, I think part of it is designing with the intention of the why. So, Priya Parker, I'm a big fan of hers, she wrote the Art of gathering back in 2018 and that's what even got me into this concept.
But basically, a lot of times we meet for the what? We're meeting before meeting. We're having a community event just to talk to each other. We're having a networking event, but there's no other goals or intention behind it. It's just the what.
And so I think the first step. There's many things to designing a third space, but I'll just start there. The first step is the why. Why are you doing it?
Are you representing the community? And what does the community need in that area?
You know, are there a lot of anxiety? Is there something that. Is there a fun regular event that you can do where you bring people together in the community and maybe do arts and crafts and that can help improve the mental health of your community? So I think the first step in designing a third space is the why.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Okay, Hannah, I'd love it if you could share an example, maybe either from the central library or any of the branches where you've seen design or programming make a difference in how people experience the. The space.
[00:15:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that what we have started to do back here, I guess it's been about four years ago or so, but we started to have signature programming that was kind of based on these themes that already exist.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: But kind of. And Simone, you talked about intentional. So having type of programming that is reflective of community, a part of belonging, is to make sure that our programming is reflective of its community.
That's a part of spaces, signage in our spaces, you know, in. In multiple languages, having accessibility for those that require or experience spaces in different ways, the staff's role, making people feel welcome.
The thing about third spaces and the beauty of third spaces and designing is, you know, positioning there, being welcoming desk and spaces where you don't have to get all the way through to the back of the building before you actually are greeted by someone making sure that staff are look up. You know, as librarians, we have had again, when I talked a few minutes ago about traditionally how we were positioned, you didn't always feel comfortable bothering the librarian. Right.
Noise levels, all of those things in how we design the acoustics of our branches.
How do we design the acoustics of our different rooms?
Years passed. It wasn't welcome to say hi or speak or to raise your voice. But now our spaces are designed when you design them, building them, especially new constructions. They are built with acoustics to have music in programming, to incorporate when people's voices are, you know, pitches go higher or lower to where it's not Disruptive. So designing quiet spaces for study as well as spaces for community, all of that is very important in creating a sense of belonging so that people don't have to feel like they have to sh.
In every single inch of our spaces.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: I love that, like hearing that, because I think when you. When people traditionally think about libraries, they think of it like you have to be very quiet.
It's not so much of a fun place. It's just like a study. You must sit down, study, be quiet. But I didn't even realize until now until you mentioned that. I. I think that's part of why I love the Austin Central Library in particular. I haven't been to the other libraries I should, but the Central Library is that it just seems so full of life and there's just people from.
You really see diverse groups of people there. You see people from all different kinds of communities there, all different kinds of programming. I've seen like, I would go walk over to the community board and I've seen like flyeries in Spanish and in English and there's services there too, like passport services and you can get seeds.
[00:19:04] Speaker C: Seed library.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: Yeah, the seed library. So it's just very impressive, like how intentional that space is.
I also just love the gift shop too. But I also want to add too. You brought up with the accessibility piece. Is that as someone. So I'm the disability aesthetist and talent success specialists at Galt and I help with workplaces and making them more accessible and something that people don't often think about, but it's very important is having that connector, having someone saying, hey, you're welcome here. Signage, like you said, like that. You're welcomed here. You can sit here, you can pick up a guitar. I don't know if there's guitar, but like, you know, you can play. We do. In a train area.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Yeah, we do.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah, we do. That's just a super. And also there's huge chess pieces.
[00:19:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So very, very fun. I also want to add to the financial barrier too.
I a lot of times want to join stuff in Austin, but I can't get there without a bus. And a lot of times I'm limited of where I can go unless I want to pay for like a $30 Uber ride. But if it's something that's on a weekly basis, that's just not affordable. And so I think having a well connected place for people to go and they're not having that expectation to spend $8 on a coffee.
You can rent books. I actually use Libby a lot.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: I love Libby for, like, audiobooks and stuff. So it's also accessible online.
[00:20:46] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: You can listen for some people that can't read and they may have blindness. They can use audiobooks or I know a lot of my friends just like audiobooks.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Very accessible for everyone. So, anyway, I just wanted to appreciate how accessible, truly, the central library is. And I think we can all really use that as a model of what we can do to our spaces and locations when we are designing these third spaces.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: I'd sure love to know, you know, just from your own personal experiences of third spaces that made a real difference either for yourself personally or just for anyone who you cared about.
Hannah, do you. Sure.
[00:21:38] Speaker C: I think that.
Well, I know from my own experiences and then just been in libraries for over 20 years, and I've not always been an executive. I have been a librarian. I've been a branch manager.
So I've been very close to people in servicing people, you know, from the front line.
So anecdotally, you know, people telling me isolation is real.
And you will be surprised at the number of people who use our spaces. It may be just to read the paper in the morning.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:28] Speaker C: It is to come in and be recognized.
Simone talked about being regular, a place when you were defining about third spaces. Being a regular, where you can come there every day if you needed to or desire to.
Well, along with that, my staff is going to learn your name, whether it be helping you, assisting you. And a part of that is fulfilling. And it breaks down isolation, to be walked into, as Simone, you said, a public space now, and somebody recognizes you, acknowledges you, it kind of chips away at isolation. You may have had the last 12 hours by yourself, but those few minutes of coming into the library and being seen, it's a game changer. And when we're in the hustle and bustle of life, maybe we don't always think about it, but being able to have a conversation with the staff, being able to have a conversation with another person that's there visiting the library or using the library or being a part of programming.
Simone, you brought up the seed library. We have it in all of our libraries.
Those plus our programming, those things invite.
It invites community. It invites you to speak to others. So having programming, being in an author talk or being in a program that asks for questions, when you can hear other people's questions, many times that gives you insight in other people's viewpoints. So that broadens your awareness by listening to other people's questions, listening to responses all of that invites community and chips away at isolation, which is a real thing that does attack our mental health. Feeling isolated, feeling like I'm alone, feeling like I don't really. No one knows my name or no one knows who I am. So just having third spaces that they recognize you and you don't have to tell them over and over again.
It is critically important.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. And I will say I relate with particularly not having a third space. Growing up. Where I grew up, you need a car to get to anywhere, especially if you're a kid, you can't drive, and if your parents are busy, there is really no place to go.
And so, unfortunately for me, my third space growing up was online. A lot of Gen Zs are online because that's right. That's the only thing that they have.
And I also want to note that too. I know we're talking about physical spaces, but if you're unable to travel or be independent on your own and go to a place, you can still also create your own space virtually by having maybe a book club every month with people. You know, there's lots of great virtual programming. So I just want to throw that out there if you're feeling lonely and you're unable to get out of the house. But that's why I really wanted to move away from where I grew up, because there's just not really a sense of community and people.
I grew up in a retirement community, so people are done.
They don't want to connect anymore. They're, you know, it's just a very isolating feeling.
And so I think as a younger person growing up in that community, I just. I was able to make friends through school. School was obviously my third space in a way. But then once you're done with K to 12, and if you don't go to college, then it's even harder to find that third space. You're really craving it. But luckily I moved to Austin, and something that Priya Parker noted and I also noticed in Austin is just there are so many amazing third spaces. One of them I go to is actually a community center.
There's this dance room.
Dance studios are usually really expensive to rent out. I think usually 60 to $70 an hour. Very expensive. So the fact that community centers have free dance rooms you can use. And so me and my friends, like, over the weekends, we would just dance together. We were just doing it for fun.
And we actually end up seeing regulars there that maybe are using the gym or other spaces. We also know the staff, they're like, come on in.
And we just blast music. And what's fun is that there's actually other dancers too, using that space. So then we end up hearing their music and what they're dancing to, and we learn, like, what, what they're working on and their choreographies. And so that's something that's very small, but brings a lot of joy, like being able to go to space, not feeling judged, Like, I'm just. We're just having fun. We're not doing anything serious, but we're able to just dance without judgment, which is actually really difficult. I feel like nowadays, because that's the other aspect too, is that third spaces are disappearing. They're really disappearing. And people notice, like, one of the bigger ones are malls. Like, that's where teenagers used to hang out.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: So true.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: Not really a thing anymore. And so, like, where do. Where did Gen Z hang out? If they don't have a car, they can't go or they don't have money. So I think that's why, like, places like libraries are so essential for not just individual mental health, but also the community mental health.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: And I also, too, want to add to what you were saying, Simone. I think I would be remiss if I didn't, you know, when we talk about mental health, when we talk about disruptors, when we talk about societal trends, the pandemic, even though we're six years out, I think I would be remiss if I did not bring up, out of all the wonderful things that we're talking about for libraries. And I'm really glad you brought up virtual.
The pandemic disrupted all of that, and we all, all of us were relegated to our homes. All of us, after a while, depending on your employment, whether they required you to come back in or not. And when that was, I wasn't living here in Austin. I was in Charlotte. It doesn't matter, because we felt it all over the world, but isolation creeped in faster for some than others. But in some point, even if you were in the house with, you know, because we all got cabin fever, but isolation was real. And so it turned everything we know upside down. And so as we're six years coming out of the pandemic, and it's fascinating that, you know, we do have some programming that is virtual. We had to. A carryover from the pandemic. We still have programming, you know, chess club, chair yoga, which is helpful in mental health book clubs. Like you brought up, Simone, we have some that are virtual. To your point, Everyone cannot make it. And so we don't want to lose those customers or those touch points as we start to try to attract people back to these spaces, we. But there was a time when there was no choice. There was no choice. And so how do we fill those gaps? And some people are still, still feeling the effects mentally from the pandemic. It's a real thing. And how do we as a society look at triggers? How do we see signs in people? And then how do we build our programs? How do we build community?
How do we show up when people do come out of their houses or to attract them out? We have to have spaces so that when people do have the courage to be able to come out, that they do feel welcome because they could retreat back.
And it doesn't take much. It doesn't take much. So I just wanted to bring that up.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. So I'm going to get you all out of here on this.
Any projects or programs that you would like to plug for our listeners, now is your opportunity.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: Well, I just wanted to just respond to Hannah real quick. I think all of that is just super valid. And, you know, I wanted to. Before plugging in stuff, I also want to bring in some action.
I like to have like a call to action, things that you can do.
And I saw this amazing piece. I recommend to look it up. It's David Burton, he's a community development specialist and he had this great framework called the third Place Creation Framework. So, you know, we've been talking about third places and what they are.
But the cool thing is that you can actually just make your own. You can do whatever you want. I actually. That's something I've been loving with.
I know social media has pros and cons, but one of the things I've been seeing is like people just making random events, like, let's try all the mangoes, or let's just dress up, put on clothes that we want to wear, we never got the chance to wear, but let's just wear it, you know. So anyways, in terms of creating a third place, these are the. I'm just going to like, read in order from what David Burton has said and creating one. So number one's purpose, which we already talked about, is you want to find the why, why are you doing this event? And once you hone in, like, maybe you want to connect your neighbors specifically, that's a great goal.
Then you can just pick the location.
You don't really have to worry about the logistics too much. It's more like just pick a spot. It could even be outdoors, just a random line.
And maybe you picnic together. It's more about the intention.
And then the biggest thing is you want to build rhythms, not one time events. So I think that's an issue I've seen with myself and my friends is that we're like, okay, let's plan for this one event. We have that one event and then we just don't really follow up and we're just super busy. So I think it's really important that you somehow create like a calendar every month.
People know this is happening and that way over time, predictability builds familiarity. Familiarity then becomes a foundation for real relationships. And then you create that community because you see them every week, every month, and you really get to know the community that you're in.
Like I said, you don't have to wait for someone else. You can create your own microplay, start a book group. You can use the corner of the Austin Central Library, make your own book club if you want to.
You can invite neighbors and just walk together. I know in my neighborhood there's actually walking groups. These walk together and yeah, that's where I want to, I just want to share that as well. And then for the plugin itself. So I'm the disability access and talent success specialist at Galt where we put ability to work and I hope address these barriers that we talked about today and also help increase belonging in these workplaces for people with disabilities. So at Galt, we help employers and the agencies build high performing teams through meaningful, fairly paid jobs for people with disabilities backed by coaching and support both employees and manager for lasting success.
And so we are a vendor in Texas. We, we are looking to connect with employers and state agencies to employ people with disabilities and we really help them on both sides create long lasting relationships and workplaces for people with disabilities. So if you align with this mission and you're in Texas, you can always reach out to me on LinkedInimonetil or you can also check out and, or check out our
[email protected]
[00:35:19] Speaker C: Excellent. Thank you. Simone, I am loving what you said about creating your own. I really, really, really love that and I think that that's so appropriate and I hope that the listeners really, really take that to heart.
As far as a plug for the Austin Public Library.
Next Friday we have APL After Dark.
And what that is is sponsored by our library foundation, but it is a program just like it says, after dark. So it is in the evening after we're closed. So you get to come into the library with other adults. This is 18 and over and there are adult beverages that will be served. But it is programmed for adults. It builds community. People love it. There are hundreds of people who come just to be seen, just to be around other people. And so we've been doing this for a few years now. It's very popular.
We do it quarterly and it is next Friday, July 10, at the Central Library from 7 to 10.
But we're also, I talked about it earlier. We are in our centennial. We have all kinds of centennial programming all year long at all of our branches in our central library. We have a big, big celebration coming up October 17th of this year. But all of those programs and everyday evergreen programs, as you said, Simone, about having consistency and having programming, having that rhythm, I love that, having that familiarity, it sets expectation and it gives people comfort. It gives people comfort because they know and that builds reliability. And so all of our evergreen programs and all of our signature programs and our centennial programs can be found at library.austintexas.gov 100 for the Centennial programming.
And I really hope that in any of our spaces, whether it is created by yourself or the ones that are there, that you take advantage of them, our listeners, that they take advantage of them. Because community is what we make it.
Community is what we make it. And so I'm really, really happy to sit across from you today, Simone. I've enjoyed this conversation and I appreciate it.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: All right. Wow.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: And I also just want to add real quick, thank you, Ike, for making this happen. I had this idea a while back and Ike was like, I'm going to make it happen no matter what. And I admire his dedication. And so, yeah, thank you for hosting this and having this important conversation with us today.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: I'm glad my mule like tendencies could lead to a good result for a change.
There's a flip side to that story.
All right, well, Simone, Hannah, thank you so much for taking the time. We really appreciate.
[00:38:32] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: Across four ARCs, community, partnership, policy and research, Innovation and Education, we're exploring how people all across Texas are growing their capacity toward a better, more lasting mental health landscape. If you missed the third arc of the episodes policy, it is in our back catalog and I hope you take the time to check it out for your listening enjoyment. Here are some snippets from those three conversations.
[00:39:11] Speaker C: Students have stories to tell and by doing, by sharing these stories, we are able to really connect with each other on such an empathetic level.
That's the thing that we need so much right now is just community is connecting hearts and minds together, knowing that we are not alone, that every student has someone around them who will listen to their story, learn from that, and then be able to inspire others.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Stories are incredibly powerful because right now we are living in a very powerful group of people's imagination. We're living in a very powerful group of people's story. And if we want to rewrite that story, we have to start sharing our own stories and really wage the battle of big ideas and talk about our lived experiences and our perspectives and the policy changes we want to seek. As a result of the lived experiences and the stories that we all hold,
[00:40:11] Speaker C: the system will keep on working and keep on functioning as it does. But there's not going to be change unless someone or people are holding that system accountable to actually put the reform into place. Because it's very easy to say, you know, we're going to commission this report after some after a disaster happens. But the follow through, the implementation, the integration of having a better and more improved system, that is key here for any community and for any policy making body.
[00:40:44] Speaker A: If you haven't already, check out our previous episodes this season. Follow along as we continue to tell stories that connect and inspire.
When we talk about mental health, we often focus on services, therapy, treatment, crisis response. But today's conversation reminds us that mental health is also shaped by something quieter but just as powerful.
The spaces we move through every day. Spaces where we feel seen, spaces where we feel safe. Spaces where we don't have to explain ourselves to belong.
Libraries, in many ways embody that vision, open, shared and grounded in the idea that everyone deserves access to knowledge, connection and community.
If we're serious about building better mental health systems, we have to think not just about care, but about place.
Because sometimes the most important thing a system can offer is somewhere to be. And that does it for this episode. We're glad you could join us. Production assistance by Cheyenne Salazar, Kay Rooney and Daryl Wiggins. Thanks as always to the Hogg foundation for its support.
If you have comments or anything that you would like to share about the podcast, feel free to reach out to us at into the foldustin Utexas. Edu. Thoughtful comments will be acknowledged during a future episode.
Your My hour, Mental Health Matters.
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Opening music by Freesound Community via Pixabay Transition Music by Jasmine Trom on via Pixabay taking us out now is Anna's Good Vibes by our good friend Anna Harris. Thanks for joining us.
