Learning Forward: What the Future Demands from Researchers and Institutions

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Into the Fold is part of the Texas Podcast Network, the Conversations Changing the World brought to you by the University of Texas at Austin. The opinions expressed in this podcast represent the views of the hosts and guests and not of the University of Texas at Austin. More than 80 years ago, Ima Hogg had a remarkably simple idea. She believed that mental health wasn't something that belonged only in hospitals or clinics. It belonged in schools, in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in homes. It belonged wherever people lived their lives. At the time, that was a radical way of thinking. Today, it feels remarkably modern. Throughout this season of into the Fold, we've explored what it takes to to build bridges, to rebuild trust, strengthen partnerships, rethink policy, and test new ideas that make mental health systems more responsive and more equitable. But before we close the season, there's one final question worth what have we actually learned? And perhaps even more importantly, what should we do with those lessons? Today we're joined by three people who have spent their careers and asking those very questions hi, welcome to into the the Mental Health Podcast. I'm Mike Evans and I'm glad to have you with us as we continue our season long exploration of growing capacity for change. This episode is our season finale and part three of our Research, Innovation and Education arc. Over these three episodes we have focused on how individuals, organizations and communities bridge the gap between research and practice, exploring how promising ideas are tested, refined and implemented in real world settings for today, learning what the future demands from researchers and institutions. [00:02:05] Speaker B: But I think as time has gone by, in recognizing that community members are their own subject matter experts and recognizing the power of the lived experience has truly had us understand now why the community voice is front and center and must be integrated into the 21st century model of mental health and health care itself. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Dr. Octavio N. Martinez, Jr. Is Senior Associate Vice President and Executive Director of the Hogg foundation for Mental Health at the University of Texas at Austin, as well as professor of Psychiatry at Dell med Medical School. Dr. Marcella Nunez Smith is CNH Long professor of Medicine and Public Health at the Yale School of Medicine and also recently chaired The White House COVID 19 health equity task Force, as well as serving as Senior Advisor to the White House Covid response and Dr. Angelie Karas is a sociologist, educator, and member of the Hogg Foundation's National Advisory Council and is also a professor at the Chobanian and Avidisian School of Medicine at Boston University. So, Dr. Martinez, you've often said that philanthropy has the freedom to experiment in ways that, you know, the government sometimes can't and I know that, you know, in particular, the Hogg foundation kind of serving as a catalyst for greater philanthropy has kind of always been foremost among your concerns. And so one question that I have for you is just the Hawk foundation has invested in communities across Texas for decades. And so looking back, what lessons have those communities been trying to teach institutions all along? [00:04:09] Speaker B: Well, thank you, Ike, for that question. And yes, indeed, the Hart foundation for Mental Health has been a catalyst for decades here in the state of Texas. Being a statewide funder dedicated only to improving the mental health and well being for people of Texas. And what we've learned along the way, especially during my tenure, Ike, is the importance of community. The community voice, it is so integral to our lives that I think it has helped to elevate the work that we've done in recognizing that. And it's been a learning process. It wasn't like that always for the Hogg Foundation. Like many foundations over many decades, we would decide what we thought we needed to invest in, where the funding needed to go. But I think as time has gone by and recognizing that community members are their own subject matter experts and recognizing the power of the lived experience has truly had us understand now why the community voice is front and center and must be integrated into the 21st century model of mental health and health care itself. And I think the innovations of learning how to work with community members in all communities, they all are unique and they're different. And there is where I think the innovation comes to play is how you work with them to be respectful, to be able to honor their experience and to help them be part of the process of actually improving mental health and well being. [00:05:48] Speaker A: Okay. Dr. Harris, Dr. Nunez Smith, your reaction to, to what you just heard from Dr. Martinez. [00:05:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I would definitely second, third ever that it was great response and is exactly right. I mean when you're looking at different communities and different groups, like they're all unique, they're all really distinct. They have their own concerns, their own issues, their own stories. And so coming in and assuming that you know what you're going to do when you're going to come up with some sort of either policy or come up with some sort of treatment or whatever it is that is going to be effective, it's not a one size fits all. When you're looking at communities and particularly when you're looking at ways in which to support them in mental health. [00:06:41] Speaker D: Hear, hear. Right. I mean, let me tell you, this is such an important conversation to have and I think, you know, I'm going to just round out the trio and say completely agree with everything that Angie and Octavio said. It's so critical, the role that philanthropy plays always and in this moment and this community first approach to thought leadership and the entire process across that continuum. So hats off to Hogg. Let's just say that and the leadership there and the work being done there in Texas, it's really important. And the how matters so much. That's what we're talking about. So whether it's to me, whether it's about clinical care delivery and that umbrella most certainly includes mental health. I'm an internal medicine doc, and I think from that vantage, I recognize the importance of talking about mental health and physical health all in the same breath. Right. But whether we're talking about clinical care delivery or for me as a researcher or the research process or quite frankly, policy and policy leadership, you can never go wrong if you make that your North Star, the community first. And at the center and really here, we try to think a lot about how we change some of these really stubborn power dynamics in those conversations. And that power shifting is so important. So how you set that table. So, yes, here, here, if we all could sort of walk away with one thing today, it's probably, what is it that we're trying to solve? Who holds the knowledge that's situated, that's that community. It's going to be hyperlocal. It's a hyperlocal response. And you know, and it should be. And it's great that we have a model in the way that that hog is doing this. [00:08:35] Speaker A: Okay, so Dr. Nunez Smith, you chaired the White House COVID 19 health equity tax Task Force during the Biden administration. So I think that this next question would be right up your alley. So during COVID you know, the country suddenly began talking about trust, sometimes in ways that sought to be helpful and sometimes something else, you know, and, you know, trust in public health, trust in science, trust in institutions. And those conversations revealed some painful realities that I think the country is still grappling with now. So looking back, which lessons do you think that, you know, that institutions genuinely learned or at least made a good effort to, and which ones are already sort of in danger of slipping away now? Because it, you know, we still carry the scars, but in other respects, people still want to act like Covid was almost a lifetime ago. You know what I mean? So I just love to get your perspective on that. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:55] Speaker D: You know, I take a big sigh. Right. When in a conversation about the lessons learned from trying to respond as A nation to a global pandemic. [00:10:07] Speaker B: And [00:10:10] Speaker D: I would just say, personally, for me, it was a deep honor, an opportunity to serve the country in that role, both in advising the White House response and also, really importantly, chairing the Health Equity Task Force. And, you know, kudos to my task force member, Octavio. Like the work that was done in that, in that body, right? Really anchored on trust, right? Having this deep understanding that you really had to begin and every conversation with how do you meet people where they are? And that is really about trust. But it is this complicated issue, right, in terms of where does distrust come from? Where does mistrust come from? So frequently, as I look back, I will say the biggest enemy in that entire period was not SARS COV2. It was not a virus. It was disinformation campaigns and misinformation campaigns that really took advantage of varying levels and many times very well understood levels of suspicion and skepticism towards big institutions. What I hope institutions took away is the, the just necessity, right, for institutions to be trustworthy. You know, as we even have this framework around trust, it really puts that onus on the individual. Why do you. And why don't you sort of trust fill in the blank? And I think we have to turn that question. You know, I'm, I'm at a large institute, I'm affiliate in many institutions. So I, when I say we, I'm thinking from that institutional lens, like, how do we take the lead there in being trustworthy? How do we define and hold ourselves responsible to community accountability measures? Right? So I think those are some of the beginning. If we continue to do that interrogation and that work, you know, maybe we'll get closer to learning the lessons we should have. But, you know, unfortunately, I do think that there was a moment where I think we were all rowing in the same direction and a lot of these issues and topics, and I do feel the potential for some fray when we're talking about mental health, which was definitely the tsunami behind the pandemic and the mental health crisis. I think this is the moment to say, well, what lessons can we bring to bear to make sure that we're addressing the mental health needs of our neighbors, of ourselves, of our families, of our communities. That's what these conversations are. We start losing that connection to the person next door, you know, we're all in trouble. [00:13:04] Speaker B: And I, I would just like to connect your question you gave to Marcella to the previous one about community. Hats off to our chair, Marcella, because I thought the process was so thoughtful. And what I mean by that, Ike is the members of the task force represented diverse communities across this entire nation. I was the only psychiatrist on there, and aside from Marcella, I think we were the only MDs. It was really very diverse voices from across the nation. And the process that hit the ground running like you couldn't believe in a really accelerated rate, but reaching out and meeting with community after community, it really put the community voice front and center. And I appreciated that personally. And hearing from our communities from across the nation of what really unified us during this time when we were dealing with COVID 19. And it's unfortunate that the reports that came from that, and by the way, also in real time, administration, making changes based on what the community was telling us. I just personally have not seen a federal initiative that had that kind of a process of impact in real time. And so it's something that institutions need to learn from that we can do this. To Marcelo's point, though, there were other forces, like misinformation, that unfortunately kind of made things opaque and not as clear as it could have been, because the impact could have been much more, I think, recognized than what actually really happened. It saved a lot of lives, is what I'll say. [00:15:02] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:15:03] Speaker B: I don't know, Marcelo, what you. [00:15:04] Speaker D: Thank you. You know, I think, you know, I think it's. It's really. I'm really appreciative of you lifting up the work of the task force and the process work. Right. Because this also ties in, I think, Angie, you getting us going. You had me starting to think about partnerships. Right. Because this is really. It's, you know, it's kind of. It's both. And which is being sure that we are focusing on community expertise and situated wisdom, and this idea of separating subject matter, expertise separate from. Right. I mean, that is not real. That's an artificial boundary, and it's the partnership. So in that task force, we're also key leaders from all of the various agencies across the federal government who really could pull some of those levers. And we needed both. We needed to show up, and this is so important. So when we get back to this idea of how we show up in this trustworthiness, this accountability discussion, because we would show up and say, very clearly, we're not here looking for accolades and praise. We're looking for, where is this going wrong? Where could we be doing better? We're going to come back, give us a few weeks, but we're going to be back, and you're going to ask us, what did you do with that information? How Is it different today? Hold us accountable. And we could come back because we had policy leaders and policymakers and others at the table too. So this, this conversation really has to be about the we in all of this because communities for too long have either been axed and then dismissed or, or have their ideas diminished because we haven't done the work, we institutions on the other, on the other side to see how can we be responsive and how can we be held accountable. So, you know, Angie had me thinking a lot like in this conversation about the power of partnership. And you really, when you say community, you need to also talk about, you know, those power dynamics and creating these equitable partnerships to get the work actually done. [00:17:05] Speaker C: Also really quick, again, jump in there responsibility that institutions, and particularly universities and colleges have that there's a reason why they tend to be in areas where quite often very populations of people of color, quite often a lot of these university spaces. And when you're looking at just the amount of money it costs in these areas, if you're looking at the fact that they're raising the property value, you look at the fact that, you know, all these things are happening and become significantly more difficult because, you know, being here in Boston, it's a major concern. And so you have these institutions and these universities taking so much in certain regards. So what is their responsibility at that point to the communities? They aren't paying taxes in the same way they aren't. So what do they then provide to communities besides really the expertise that they do have within certain types of areas, whether there's access to either research materials, whatever it is that it's really the responsibility of these institutions to figure out how to better work with communities, work with organizations, groups, schools, all these other various things because it's, you know, there, it takes an enormous amount of resources from these, from different communities. And it's not only is it taking normal amount of resources, it's also just getting, driving up the property value. It's just really having major, major impact on people's lives. And so what point where it's not just, yes, it's nice that they're doing it, but this is what you should be doing because this is your responsibility. You're part of the community as well. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Okay, so Dr. Harris, that's actually a perfect segue because it was only recently that you kind of, during our most recent national Advisory Council meeting, you kind of led those in attendance through some pretty meaningful dialogue around cultural humility. Among other things. It was pretty wide ranging. And so we're talking about institutions right now. And so I'd just love to hear a little bit more about what you have learned, I guess trying to nudge institutions toward that kind of self interrogation. And how that is sort of connected to building trust. [00:19:43] Speaker C: Yeah, no, this is really a great question because one of the things that's really awesome about being a sociologist is that our approach to problem solving, data collection, etc is a little bit different, unique. Our theories, you know, all these other various things that we do, it's just very, very different. So when you're working in an institution that's like a medical school for example, where you got to recognize that people's backgrounds are entirely different. And so y. I've got, you know, actual MDs here on this podcast, you know, that I'm speaking with as well. But again, as you all know that the education, the training is just very, very different, particularly when people were trained. So it's. So when you're looking at institutions, even considering, you know, you know where I am, that it's not that people don't want to do things or institutions don't. They don't really know how to or that they should. They're not going into different communities talking to people and talking to different groups and having engage these long interview like it's. Most people within institutions aren't really engaged with communities like that. And so as a result it helps people to really understand with my role, like I help people really understand that not only are you, that it's your responsibility, but you're not necessarily a bad person for not thinking about this or not approaching this or not. Because that's another thing that we quite often get is well, we should have been doing. We're not so we're so. Well no, you didn't necessarily know. And so now that you know, know, let's see what we can do and how we can work with people, how we can work to support people, how we can provide again like trainings, education, you know, we have the amount of jobs even that institutions can provide. And just it's like there's so many things that universities can do to support communities where it's not just kind of taking from them. And so it's, it's more about opening their kind of like changing how they see support and changing how they see what their community responsibility is. And so it's not about guilt tripping people or anything like that. It's about helping them to recognize that look what we're getting from the community, look what we're in essence kind of Taking in certain regards and what can we do to give back? And what are the different ways that we can do it? And what are the different ways we can do it in a meaningful way that will help people across multiple generations? I think. [00:22:16] Speaker A: Okay, so, yeah, and one kind of emergent theme that I'm hearing is that for a lot of things, Community is often where genuine innovation kind of starts to bubble up. And sometimes it's your august institutions who are almost the last to get the word. And so kind of having a pretty expansive and flexible frame for what innovation looks like and kind of having different ways of keeping your ear to the ground so that you don't miss out. And to kind of, I guess, piggyback on what it seems all of you were saying in different ways, kind of, you know, just listening and showing genuine curiosity. Yeah, that's a huge part of it as well. So my next question is for all three of you. I'd like each of you to imagine that we're building a mental health system from scratch. We know everything we know today. We have today's research, today's technology, and I guess from the previous conversation, we have today's understanding of community centeredness. What would we refuse to build the same way if we were starting over? And I'm just going to toss this out to all three of you, whoever's feeling nervy enough to jump on that. [00:24:02] Speaker C: First payments, billing, The whole financial aspect. That's what I would. [00:24:14] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I would. [00:24:15] Speaker B: I would. [00:24:16] Speaker D: Yeah. I don't. I mean, I, I would come. So. You know what I love about this question is the invitation to dream big. Right? And dream. Yeah, different, because I do agree that, you know, you have few moments in history when you can actually meet that invitation head on. I think there is such an awareness, again because of the incredible work of Hogg foundation and others. There's such an awareness that the system isn't quite where it needs to be and we need to do more. Having that kind of general consensus that we can be doing better to address the mental health needs in our, in our country, I think gives this question both an amount of gravity, because I do think that invitation is real, but also excitement and optimism around where we could go. It's not going to be long before we're going to talk about money. Of course, this is what Angie is saying. As an internal medicine doc, I've long been a champion for parody, but that's a complicated conversation. But we've got to at least start somewhere. And so really thinking about what does that mean when we're talking about kind of having an understanding of what health is and maybe that even though it seems so basic, is what I would say, like if I could just undo something, it would be the silos that we begin the conversation in all the time. Right. Like as though my mental health lives separate and apart from every other part of my body. Right. And so there's health and then there's mental health, or there's physical. Right. And I think that has been at the root of just so much that's problematic. And science is helping us understand really just, just kind of how useless and wrong that kind of demarcation is. But from that has flowed a lot in terms of where value is placed and where stigma goes and is assigned. Right. And how we do think about things like reimbursement and payment and access and normalizing seeking care. So, you know, so none of us are going to be short. But I know if we probably, we probably could all agree that kind of thinking a lot about the resources and resource allocation and distribution is going to be key in a, in a rebuild. [00:26:36] Speaker B: What I would add is I love whatever Angie and Marcelo's already said and started with. And I think about this often, especially the role that the Hogg foundation can play. And what it makes me think about is often we do this exercise every once in a while. But I think it's a useful exercise because the status quo is untenable. It is failing all of us. So let's start with a blank slate and what would it really look like, and to me is when we've already talked about it, a mental health system, that community is integrated into true integration, where prevention first is what we really think about. Now, let's not wait to be responsive, let's be proactive. A public health approach to mental health must be equity, equity driven. All communities must be included, be respected and evidence based in ensuring that the outcome that communities want, an individual, a family, community wants, we all want the same thing, health and well being, to be able to live a fulfilling life. And it needs to be in this day and age, technology enabled. Also from an equity standpoint, that would be the kind of system I think that we would want. And we're actually, and I love, Marcel, you brought up silos where there is no longer the head is disconnected from the rest of the body. There is no health without mental health. World Health Organization said that last century and we're still working toward that. And I think starting with a blank saying, saying this is what we all would want this is where we are, could help identify as how we get from point A to that point Z, not B, but all the way. [00:28:28] Speaker D: All the way. [00:28:28] Speaker B: You know, even though it might be incremental, but we need to go all the way, because in my opinion, we all would just benefit so much to have really, truly fulfilling lives, regardless of where you're from, who you are, because that, in fact, and I would want it for the whole world, not just the United States, by the way, because, you know, we are all human beings on this wonderful planet, and until we recognize that health, mental health, is a human right, I think we're going to struggle. But that would be another piece I would throw in there that that is part of it being equitable. It needs to be a. A significant right. We're about to celebrate our 250th anniversary here in the United States. July 4th is just around the corner on Saturday, you know, and yet have we truly fulfilled pursuing happiness? Well, you can't get there unless you're healthy. So I really hope that as we're all moving forward and we're looking at different pieces of this elephant, that we step back and realize what the whole is really needed so that we can actually make sure our parts are much more than just individually, but in fact, meet the greater goal. [00:29:50] Speaker D: So well said. You know, the arc of this conversation, you know, I'm really appreciating deeply because what is often on my mind as a public health champion and advocate are the things that threaten that. Worrying about division and misinformation and disinformation. And what you just provided is this incredibly unifying grounding for us. I happen to be a parent of humans, and, like, how do I not want that vision, right? And the person next to me and the person next to me, we are all situated within families and communities, networks, units that we love, and we want that for the person that we care about. [00:30:38] Speaker B: Right? [00:30:39] Speaker D: And so, you know, makes me. It makes me both, quite honestly, a little bit frustrated that we've been saying for so long, like, this is really important, but also super optimistic that the channels are there now for the sharing, I think, of narrative in a really special way. Angie, you were talking about what it means to have the lens of a sociologist and what data means and what data means to you and how we make these data choices and what that means. And when Tavia talks about, what I hear are the individual stories that all of us know that should really compel us to take that next step on a policy agenda, right? In our communities, in our country and talk to obvious point beyond globally. How is this still a conversation about people having access to what's needed to really thrive and be their best selves? And this is that conversation around mental health. So I'm really struck by the arc and really inspired and motivated to say, okay, how do we take all of this and. And animate it to be difference making for communities? [00:31:54] Speaker C: No, that's the hard part though, because everybody wants. So it's funny because everybody wants to be happy, everybody wants to be healthy, everybody wants that. It's. You want your neighbors, you want people to be okay for the most part. The issue though is that it's how do you go about doing it? And so everybody's got different ideas as to how to do it, who should do how, people should be able to access it just is a mess. But it's just really funny because we all want in essence, the exact same things. It's just going about. It varies. And that's where you end up getting a lot of the. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:32:32] Speaker B: You know, and Angie, you're so right about that right now. What I hear a lot about the rhetoric coming from our leaders is that we are in a win lose scenario. Always someone to win means that someone else has to lose. The truth is though, that it's not that way all the time. And in fact, most of the time at least, maybe I'm naive, but I do believe there is that. We have so many win win situations, but we're not highlighting those because of the way that opportunities are portrayed. Like the pie is set to a certain size. And so if I take a slice, then that means you're going to have less. But take a look at economically what's been happening across this globe and especially in the United States with, you know, especially now with AI the. The pie is growing to go back 20 years before, you know, all this technology has exploded. And of course we've been having a technology for a long time. I know, but if the pie was set, there's no way Elon Musk would ever be a trillionaire. But yet he is now, which means the pie grew. [00:33:53] Speaker D: Yep. [00:33:54] Speaker B: And there are. And. And the opportunities but though are still being set that for him to get the trillion means someone else lost it. And I disagree. I think we are creating wealth and you need to. Not all of us define it the same way though, but it is increasing the wealth of not only this nation, but of the world. Where we, where I think where we have a big issue from, sociologically speaking, is the fact that Some folks want to have a bigger piece of that pie all the time without realizing it doesn't take much if you were actually able to spread the pie around and the joy because the majority people want to. Getting back to Marcel, to your point, take care of their family, take care of their community. They're not hell bent on becoming the richest person in the universe. Yeah. They just want to be able to sit at the table, enjoy their family, feed them and be able to know that they're going to be able to do that the next day and not live from what's happening here in this country now. Paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. We need to change that trajectory. And it's very difficult since we're very individualistic, because it takes a community approach, a village approach to do what I'm saying, which is we all win if and can share the pie, but we have to recognize each other as, as, as integral members of the overall community to be able to do that. [00:35:25] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, we're all, you know, it's hard in this media. Like we're all just nodding here because, right, the, the, the, the collective, right, that's it. I mean, we've all sort of talked about that. Even as you say, like, what is community centeredness even mean? Right. It's about the collective and understanding as a collective, you know, how we can put our energies. And that's why, you know, often if we roll in the same direction, I will never. Right. And so this is this conversation around. How do we, you know, in this moment, like have conversations that do invite people in that allow us to have a mirror, right. To see ourselves as we talk to one another, as we think about what policies we want. So, you know, I think we can, you know, I always say, I'm a general internal medicine doc, so everything is always both. And for me, and I'm like, you know, I think it's, it's, it's, it's not that it's naivete, right. And it's not that it's doomsday. Like we have a, both end moment before us, which is how do we take. Now it's very hard to ignore the mental health crisis. It's just hard. Right. And the obligation, right. I'm looking around this room, right. The obligation for all of us and for everyone who is in listening distance of us, right. Is to start saying, okay, well, what am I going to do? Right? Yeah, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And it's not like I'm going to wring my hands and throw it. Right? Like, what am I going to do? And that can look different for different folks. Right. For some people it's going to be, I'm going to go check on my neighbor. Right. And for others it's, I'm going to start thinking about how I talk to elected officials about this being a priority here in my community and so and everything in between and beyond. You know, I think that that is really our call to action, which is probably going beyond like our scope. But I think that we really should not squander an opportunity to say, like, let's all be called to action because there is so much that we can do and there are so many myths out there that have worked against us. Be it, you know, zero sum game and the pie is one size and, you know, like, who gets to be the arbiter of what is mental health? Like, all of these are important conversations, but they, they can be distracting from that overarching one, which is can we just get together and agree that this needs to be North Star for us and we need to figure this out? And if we can figure this out here, shame on us. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Okay, so one final question and trying to incorporate in a more direct way the theme for this episode. Complete this sentence, Learning forward means and Dr. Harris, I would putting you on the spot here. I'd love to start with you. [00:38:34] Speaker C: Oh, goody. Now learning [00:38:37] Speaker B: it is [00:38:40] Speaker C: more dynamic, I would say more action oriented. More. It's not just about learning. It's about enacting some sort of change as you learn. Like it just seems such, it's more again, just dynamic. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Wonderful. Dr. Nunez Smith, [00:39:14] Speaker D: Fill in the blanks. Yes. Learning forward I think is being curious in a new way, looking for answers and solutions in places we haven't before. And also being dynamic and action oriented because I totally agree. [00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Okay. Dr. M. I think a beautiful start by Angie Marcela in Learning Forward. Ike, to me it's, and we talked a little bit about this, of what we need to do to make change. It's being proactive. And when I think about learning forward, and I totally agree with already the description here, but it's a continuous improvement that I think the beautiful thing is is it's about harnessing our creativity to address the future and keep going forward in that sense, I think that could be just so powerful. [00:40:18] Speaker A: All right, well, Dr. Octavio Martinez, Dr. Marcela Nunez Smith and Dr. Angelique Harris, thank you so much for taking the time to visit with us today. We really do appreciate it. [00:40:31] Speaker D: Thank you. A pleasure. [00:40:32] Speaker C: Thank you so much for the invitation. [00:40:33] Speaker B: Thank you, Angie. Thank you, Marcella. [00:40:35] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:40:36] Speaker B: You bet. Bye. Bye. [00:40:42] Speaker A: As we wrap up, a quick reminder that this episode is part of our new season theme, Growing Capacity for change. Across four ARCs, community, partnership, policy and research, innovation and education, we're exploring how people all across Texas are growing their capacity toward a better, more lasting mental health landscape. If you missed the previous arc of episodes policy, it's in our back catalog and I hope you take the time to check it out for your listening interest. Here are some snippets from those three conversations. [00:41:19] Speaker D: Students have stories to tell and by doing, by sharing these stories, we are able to really connect with each other on such an empathetic level. That's the thing that we need so much right now, is just community, is connecting hearts and minds together, knowing that we are not alone, that every student has someone around them who will listen to their story, learn from that, and then be able to inspire others. Stories are incredibly powerful because right now we are living in a very powerful group of people's imagination. We're living in a very powerful group of people's story. And if we want to rewrite that story, we have to start sharing our own stories and really wage the battle of big ideas and talk about our lived experiences and our perspectives and the policy changes we want to seek. As a result of the lived experiences and the stories that we all hold, the system will keep on working and keep on functioning as it does. But there's not going to be change unless someone or people are holding that system accountable to actually put the reform into place. Because it's very easy to say, you [00:42:36] Speaker B: know, we're going to commission this report [00:42:38] Speaker D: after a disaster happens, but the follow through, the implementation, the integration of having a better and more improved system, that is key here for any community and for any policy making body. [00:42:51] Speaker A: If you haven't already, check out our previous episodes this season and follow along as we continue to tell stories that connect and inspire. When we began this season, we set out to explore what it means to grow our capacity for change. Not just to respond to today's challenges, but to build something stronger for tomorrow. Over these 12 episodes, we've met people from every corner of Texas who are doing exactly that. Community members rebuilding trust where trust has been broken. Organizations discovering that partnership is more powerful than working alone. Advocates who know that good policy isn't simply about passing legislation, it's about creating conditions where people can thrive. Researchers, educators and innovators who remind us that learning isn't something that we do once, but rather something that we commit to over a lifetime. One lesson has surfaced again and again. Real change rarely begins with a headline. It begins with relationships, with listening, with curiosity, with the willingness to ask not just what can we fix, but what can we grow? Because capacity isn't measured by the size of a budget or the number of programs that we create, although those are important. Capacity is measured by what remains. When the grant ends, when the spotlight fades, when the crisis is over. It's the trust we've earned, the partnerships we've built, the leaders we've developed, the knowledge we've shared, and mostly the communities that are stronger because they helped shape the solution themselves. That kind of change doesn't happen overnight. It grows. And if there's one thing this season has shown us, and if there's one thing this season has shown us, it's that across Texas, people are already doing the hard, hopeful work of growing that capacity every day. To all of our guests, thank you for sharing your wisdom. To everyone listening, thank you for joining us on this journey and to everyone working in big ways and small to create a Texas where mental health and well being are woven into the the fabric of everyday life, thank you for helping grow our capacity for change. And that does it for this episode. We're glad that you could join us. Production assistance by Cheyenne Salazar, Kate Rooney and Daryl Wiggins thanks as always to the Hawk foundation for its support. If you have comments or anything that you would like to share about the podcast, feel free to reach out to us at into the foldustin Utexas Eduardo, you, especially thoughtful comments will be acknowledged during a future episode. Your my hour Mental Health Matters. Please leave us a review and subscribe to us on your preferred podcast platform. And don't forget to check the show notes for related content including past episodes. Opening music by Steven Seibert Transition music by Jasmine Trom on via Pixabay Taking us out now is Anna's Good Vibes by our good friend Anna Harris. I'm Mike Evans. This has been into the fold.