Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Into the Fold is part of the Texas Podcast Network, the Conversations Changing the World brought to you by the University of Texas at Austin. The opinions expressed in this podcast represent the views of the hosts and guests and not of the University of Texas at Austin.
Before we begin, a quick note that the Hogg foundation has open funding opportunities for the Libraries Supporting Community Mental Health Grants, the Stephanie J. Bryan Bold Spirit of Achievement Scholarships, and the Moore Fellowship for Doctoral Dissertation Research.
To learn more about these opportunities, visit our website at hogg utexas. Edu Funding Opportunities Also the month of May is Mental Health Awareness Month.
Throughout the month we'll be highlighting this year's theme, More Good Days Together, and focusing on the resilience and diverse experiences that shape mental health journeys within Texas communities.
To learn more, visit our website h o g utexas. Edu.
And now we bring you episode 186 into the Fold.
When we think about policy change, we often think about experts, statistics and long hours at the Capitol.
But some of the most powerful tools for change aren't data points, they're stories.
Stories about what it means to navigate a mental health system that doesn't see you.
Stories about fighting for a voice when the system overlooks your community in advocacy. Personal stories turn abstract issues into human ones.
And that's where real change begins.
Hi, welcome to into the Fold, the Mental health Podcast. I I'm Mike Evans and I'm glad to have you with us as we continue our season long exploration of growing capacity for change.
This episode is the second of the policy arc of our season, an arc focused on how systems change happens and how mental health policy is shaped not just by moments of urgency, but by sustained leadership.
For today, policy telling.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: Your story stories are incredibly powerful because right now we are living in a very powerful group of people's imagination. We're living in a very powerful group of people's story, and if we want to rewrite that story, we have to start sharing our own stories and really wage the battle of big ideas and talk about our lived experiences and our perspectives and the policy changes we want to seek as a result of the lived experiences and the stories that we all hold.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Today's conversation looks at how lived experience becomes a catalyst for advocacy.
We'll explore how young people, and really anyone, can use their personal story to shape systems, influence policy, and make their communities stronger.
My guests are Aurora Harris and Casey Korpus of Young Invincibles, a national organization that amplifies young voices to influence policy on health, higher education, and economic opportunity through their work in Texas, they help young people turn experience into impact by finding their voice, protecting their well being, and learning the power of advocacy.
Aurora, Casey, welcome to our studio. Thank you so much for being with us today.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Thank you for having us.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Okay, so I would like to start with just, you know, with what you see every day kind of in your work.
The moment when someone realizes that personal experience has the power to create change.
How do you help young people connect their story to a larger policy concern?
Aurora, maybe we could start with you on that.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. And thank you so much for having me. This is such a great question to start with.
The best part of our work is helping young people tell their story and watching them understand the power that they have.
And we help young people connect their stories in a variety of ways. I think the first thing I'll say is that we run leadership development programs at Young Invincible. So we have our Young Advocates program where we train young adults ages 18 to 34 on the policy advocacy process in Texas. We also have a youth advisory board. And then we also meet young people where they are in a variety of ways.
We have a student advisory council. We are on college campuses a lot, but we're also in apartment complexes in Houston, and you can catch us at health fairs in East Texas. We really are trying to meet young people where they are online on TikTok. And so we're really sort of proud of the work we do and the ways that we're trying to meet young people and meet this moment.
I think the first thing we do is we help young people understand storytelling and narrative shift and that it's the cornerstone of policy advocacy.
Stories are incredibly powerful because right now we are living in a very powerful group of people's imagination. We're living in a very powerful group of people's story. And if we want to rewrite that story, we have to start sharing our own stories and really wage the battle of big ideas and talk about our lived experiences and our perspectives and the policy changes we want to seek as a result of the lived experiences and the stories that we all hold.
So that's sort of the first piece is like training young people on storytelling, on narrative work. What is narrative change? What are the narratives that are dominant in Texas and dominant in our country?
And I think a lot of us know those narratives, right? Pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Right?
We've kind of grown up and we're swimming in a lot of those narratives. So one of the things we have to do at Young Invincibles is, well, what's your lived experience. And then what is a narrative that you want to shift and what is a narrative that you want to put out there? So we do a lot of training around that before we even like sort of get young people in the spaces where they're actually sharing their story.
And then after the training, we use their stories in a variety of ways. Testimonies at the Capitol in Austin, which Casey can probably talk more about. Media interviews, videos and content on social media, of course, like TikTok, Instagram, Twitch, all of that. It's like its own universe in Internet culture, is so big with young people. And so that's a really big place where we're training young people on how to share their story, vlogging, op eds, letters to the editors, you know, you name it.
And I think the biggest takeaway though is making sure young people understand the link between their lived experience and public systems and policy advocacy and understanding that their stories are what's shaping and influencing these policies and systems that we're trying to change.
And I hand it over to you, Casey.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I think, I think Aurora really was able to touch on a lot of the things. The only thing I'll add is obviously with connecting young adult experiences to policy, we often use previous stories or try to find scenarios that will connect to the experiences that young adults are facing so that they see themselves reflected in the policy work. Because I don't think that young adults are often immediately seeing that their stories can create that political or policy change.
Often it's finding ways to connect their experiences to policy and show that example first and then through the process of giving those opportunities to tell their stories through all the things that Aurora talked about, op EDS or testifying at the Capitol, I think kind of getting that feedback, seeing how that resonates with people and kind of experiencing that journey is often what really is that aha. Moment of oh, we can actually create policy change, but we also try to model, showing them previous examples of that through our work, showing how young adults have helped inspire that change.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: So one follow up question I had has to do with if there are any nuances that either of you have learned about how to frame a story so that it actually moves decision makers without, without being tokenized. And that's kind of a word that I'm. That I'm throwing into the conversation.
I don't know if it's something either of you have ever had any, any opportunity to reflect on, but Casey, maybe you've.
[00:09:59] Speaker C: Okay, yeah.
Yeah. I think that that's a really Great question. And definitely something that we have encountered this, this idea and definitely something that we try to ensure that we don't have our advocates feeling that way. I think, I think when it comes to testifying and sharing your lived experience experiences, that is very often a vulnerable situation that young adults are putting themselves in when they're talking about their lived experiences, especially with very sensitive topics. And I think there, there's so many instances of that, but we try to really strike that balance between making the experience being an empowering one versus, you know, a traumatizing or, or a way to kind of, you know, share those experiences and it feel traumatizing or, or like you're not going to get what you're, what you want out of that experience.
Knowing that a lot of times there'll be young adults who feel like, I'm going to share this really traumatizing story and that's going to completely change people's minds. And often, sometimes it does really work and it's so powerful, sometimes it's not met with the reaction that they want. And so we really try to empower them to understand that a, you know, this is an experience, you know, this is going to hopefully create change. And even if it doesn't change it in this moment, this will probably, you know, change someone's mind.
But also prepping people so that they feel they know what the outcomes can be so that they are sharing their story regardless, you know, it's going to feel like an empowering moment regardless of what, you know, other people's reactions might be.
So I think that preparation is also really key so that again, that expectation is set and they're not, you know, left feeling like, oh, I thought this was going to totally shift everything and it didn't happen.
So I think that's also a really great one. But I think it's also the community building aspect of it, of knowing that when you tell their story, it might not change the legislator or the decision maker in front of you, but it'll definitely create some ripple effects in the community or maybe with other people that are testifying.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. And I think one example that is coming to mind for me is we have been successfully running campaigns around parenting students here in Texas. And for those listening who don't know what we mean by parenting student, it's a college student who is also raising children under the age of 18. Right.
And these are by and large women, women of color, and they're oftentimes single parents. And it takes them on average, three, four additional years to complete their post secondary degree because they're having to navigate all that comes with motherhood and parenthood while also trying to complete their education.
I think as organizers, understanding what are the narratives that already exist around black single mothers, for example, right. What are the, what is the like media landscape? What comes to mind when folks hear a parenting student? What comes to mind, like what emotions and images are already present? I think at YI we take extra care to understand the narrative and storytelling landscape that we're about to put young people in and put young women in. And then what does it mean to center the stories of parenting students in a way that feels affirming and empowering and is about their value and is about their assets that they bring to the higher education landscape, to our economy, to our communities?
And I think the way that we do that in Young Invincibles is involving young people at every single step in the campaign.
Any organizer or funder or advocate that might be listening, this is like really for you, what helps making sure that young people or any, any community isn't tokenized is were they involved at every step? Were they there for the policy agenda setting process? Were they there to understand and learn about the bill and help draft the bill and really be a part of it, the way the whole sausage is made, rather than just bringing them in when it's time to testify and share this really, you know, traumatic story about trying to complete college while navigating childcare and not having snap access and not having housing and sort of all the things. Right. I think the way you get out of tokenism is really centering community from the very beginning to the very end. And we have done that at YI really successfully. Were able to pass multiple pieces of legislation allowing student parents to register to classes early before other folks. Right? Making sure that they have someone on campuses to help them sort of navigate resources so that they can complete at the same time as their peers and even getting data, right? Like this is a group of young women who aren't even really being counted. And because of our campaign, we're able to now have data on who are parenting students in the state and then it will help us further understand what resources that they need. So we've been really successful at making sure groups aren't tokenized. And I think the way that we do that is just involving the community at every step of the process.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Okay, so maybe shifting gears just slightly and if we could get just maybe a little bit, a little bit more concrete regarding, I guess the do's and don'ts of policy storytelling, not that there are universally applicable rules.
And one thing that I'm taking from what both of y' all have said is, you know, that it can take some doing to, you know, to finally extract what works best, you know, taking into account, you know, your particular voice and your particular or most characteristic modes of expression, you know, when it, when it comes to, you know, kind of how you, how you take up space in that work.
But once someone decides that they're ready to share their story, I would guess that the next step is figuring out how to use it strategically. And so what, in your opinion, makes a story effective in advocacy or policy settings? And are there any pitfalls to avoid?
[00:16:50] Speaker C: Right. So, yeah, I think, I think one of the big dos is being concise and clear both about what your message is and how it connects to either the topic at hand or the policy that you are trying to connect to.
Making sure that you're telling an authentic story and not just making something up, but also really taking the time to be clear about what that process looks like from beginning to end so that you know what you want out of it and what you would like to share as an advocate so that, you know, sometimes in the moment you'll, you'll hear other people's testimony or you'll see some other people talk about their stories and people will maybe want to change it up and start pulling out things. I think knowing going into that opportunity, whether it be an interview or a testimony, knowing what you want to get out of it and what exactly that point is that connects so that, you know, your not trying to make things up at the, at the last second or kind of switch things up or confuse and muddle the story.
So I think just being really concise is kind of like the first thing I'll.
I'll bring up.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: I think, Casey, you gave wonderful tips on some do's and don'ts around speaking to legislators and speaking to the media. And I wanted to kind of tackle some do's of speaking to your peers and speaking to your folks who are trying to engage in this moment. I think this political moment we're in is just nothing short of a crisis. Right.
And in moments of political crisis, people are going to grab the best ideas that are laying around. And so it's also really important that we really just build a bigger we in this moment and get as politically engaged as we possibly can. And so a couple of tips around sharing your story with like, folks who are trying to organize is just making sure that you are framing the conversation, using your story to uncover what the other person cares most about. So it's a little bit of a different ask than when you're speaking with like a legislator or a decision maker. Because in, in that instance, you're really trying to uncover what the other person cares about.
And then you want to ask some like probing questions to help them identify who's responsible. Right? Like who is the decision maker that is stopping them from getting snap access, stopping them from getting healthcare access, like really helping them identify who's responsible. And then I think a key piece is educating, visioning and articulating your plan to win. Right? Like what's the larger vision?
What's your collective plan to win?
And how are we trying to build long term power in this moment?
And then organizing is all about asking. You're sharing your story that ultimately when you're talking to a peer, you're trying to invite them to take a specific action towards this plan to win. And so making sure you have an ask in your back pocket, like, okay, I need you to come join this Young Advocates program with me at Young Invincibles. This is really cool organization. They're fighting to expand healthcare access and mental health care access. Come to this next meeting with me, it's gonna be Tuesday, 6 o', clock, right. And sort of like help them follow through on their commitment. Send that reminder text so that they can come to the organizing meeting with you. And I just wanna name that. It's very important to share your story with decision makers and with your legislator and with the media. But now more than ever, it's important to start sharing your story with peers. People feel really demoralized right now and like nothing that they do matters.
And when you share your story with them, you're really like, aw, getting that sense of possibility within them. And so I just wanted to share some do's around that as well.
[00:20:42] Speaker C: Yeah, And I'll just add, I think one powerful thing about storytelling is with legislators or change makers, decision makers, storytelling will provide context or give some insight into the problem that they're trying to solve or what the impact of a policy could beyond on folks. And so that helps provide context in that way. But I think for the community, for everyone else, when you hear storytelling that often can help other folks see themselves or contextualize how they might be impacted by something. So realizing that maybe if they heard the term, they wouldn't think that they were connected to that issue, but hearing someone else talk about their real experience, they might realize, oh, I actually have experienced this before or I have been through something similar to that, and now that connects them to the issue. So it kind of has like a way to kind of touch everyone and be able to impact a lot of different people. But it really can have those dual impact on both, like those that are affecting change and then those who might be brought into the fold.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Okay, so one question I've got and is, do you have any case studies or kind of personal anecdotes regarding someone's story actually having a catalytic effect on decision maker action that you can recollect?
What was the context and what was the kind of the eventual outcome?
[00:22:28] Speaker B: I think the one that's coming to mind is going back to the parenting student campaign that I lifted up earlier.
We had a parenting student living in Austin, and she was previously in the foster care system, had aged out, had a son and, you know, was going to college, but dropped out due to needing childcare access and also like housing and sort of just other basic needs support.
She applies to the Young Advocates program, really, because she, like, needed a job. Right.
But we just saw the, like, powerful story within her and just also her ability to kind of motivate and others and sort of this deep love that she had for her son and accepted her into the program like it was no, like no brainer.
And we had known that we wanted to do some work around parenting students because we had been doing all of this research. Right, but research is only one piece of the puzzle when you're doing policy advocacy. Yes, data is important, but like Casey said, those stories really help bring the policy issue to life and provide the context for others. And so we're having legislative visits and, you know, she begins to share her story.
She talks about what it was like to sort of live out of her car, what it would mean for her to be able to complete college on time and, you know, the type of job that she wanted to do. She wanted to, like, work in public safety. And she just really talk about her dreams and wanting to be able to accomplish that. And it moved a Texas legislative member to pick up our bill and draft the legislation. And it was the first of its kind in the state of Texas to ever be about the parenting student population, because again, at the time, parenting students weren't even being counted. And so this group of people were really invisible. And so it just really inspired that legislator to pick up that piece of legislation and, and sort of draft it for us and take a chance. All because she, you know, shared her story with him during those legislative visits. And so that's just one example that kind of comes to mind. And like I said earlier, we ended up winning that campaign. Although it did take us like, how many years, Casey? Four years, five years to win it?
[00:24:48] Speaker C: I think it was like six or seven years.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it took us six years to win it. But it all started with her sharing her story. So that's just one example that I can think of.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: Yeah. And just really quickly, I'll kind of also give an example.
A couple.
Not this past session, but the previous session.
We at the state of Texas, we're working on thinking about the funding formula for community college, community colleges in Texas as a whole, and what that funding formula would look like. We created a group called the Student Advisory Council just because we saw that young adults weren't really being really featured or asked a lot or considered when thinking about how do we want to fund community colleges moving forward and what those outcomes could be centered around.
We created this young adult program to really get them to understand what this whole system looks like, but also to be able to empower them to give their own recommendations and be able to testify and engage with that whole process.
I think throughout we started to have them testify and engage in this. And over time, their stories, I think, really brought to life for a lot of the commission members, for the folks who eventually ended up on the committee at the Texas Ledge.
They really were able to see the funding formula as more than just a formula and saw the real life implications of what funding community colleges meant for communities, for people, for parents, for people who are looking to raise their families.
And so it really completely changed that context and what the ultimate result of that was were they were asking us at every level to.
For students. For community college students to come and engage and testify and provide their insight. They wanted to make sure that at that point, moving forward, every, every level had at least some student input into everything. So because they saw the value of that, but also the outcome in the funding formula was that it is now very centered around student outcomes and affordability, which were not really terms that were really being as lifted up in the process. From the beginning, they were thinking more about enrollment and data pieces like that. But in the end, now it's focused on students again, their outcomes. Are they graduating? Are they able to succeed? And I think that really shows how just the students themselves getting involved in that process really reframed how those legislators now approach that whole process.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Okay, wonderful.
So I'm going to get you all out of here on this last question.
Just if there's any way that our listeners can maybe learn a little bit more about your ongoing work and how they can either just follow or support it. If there's anything that you'd like to mention or plug now, now would be a wonderful time.
[00:28:17] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think we'll probably tackle different pieces of this because we obviously we do have a state presence and then we also have our national presence.
I think if you just follow our our YI account, we we post about our state and national goings on happenings on that one account. So we keep it pretty concise in that way.
So I think definitely follow that. We do have a Texas specific newsletter which you can join from our, from our website.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: What's that?
[00:28:53] Speaker C: What's the web URL younginvision.org okay, great.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:57] Speaker C: Okay. And our handles are at Young Invincibles. Sorry y'.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: All.
[00:29:00] Speaker C: I'm always like assumed there's like another word in there.
But yes, I we we post a lot about our upcoming events. We'll be doing a lot, especially this upcoming summ.
Well, we'll be looking Forward to the 2027 legislative legislative session. And so we'll be starting to think about what policy we want to be thinking about what our advocacy efforts are going to be looking like come, you know, 2027. And so the summer and the fall is a really great time to start engaging if that's something that you're interested in, because we will be really thinking about that. We also do two cohorts, one in the spring and one in the fall.
So if you are interested in being or applying for our program, that's also the best way to kind of get that information is by signing up through our newsletter or following us on social media because we post when we're accepting applications.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Okay, great.
Casey, Aurora, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us about just how impactful personal storytelling done in the right way can be.
We really do appreciate it.
[00:30:20] Speaker C: Thank you for having us.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Thanks for having us.
[00:30:25] Speaker A: As we wrap up, a quick reminder that this episode is part of our new season theme, Growing Capacity for change across four ARCs community, partnership, policy and Research, Innovation and Education.
We're exploring how people all across Texas are growing their capacity toward a better, more lasting mental health landscape.
If you missed the most recent arc of episodes Partnership, it is in our back catalog and I hope you take the time to check it out for your listening enjoyment. Here are some snippets from those three conversations.
It is a place where we are concerned, not just with the soul of the person, but we're also concerned about the entire being. And so when it comes to mental health, we can be a resource. We can be a place for information, and we can also be a place where we can, you know, guide people to places where they can get the help that they need.
[00:31:25] Speaker C: So we do stuff for the inpatients and the staff.
And when nami, which is more of a. And I'll let Colleen talk a little bit more.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: But we love our partnership with them
[00:31:38] Speaker C: because they are more of an outpatient education support system.
And so we need, you know, individuals need family support, they need outside support.
And so I love that we have started a really, really binding partnership. You cannot work to address these big issues in silos, right, because it creates duplication, it creates confusion. And there is a power in people coming together and just sitting in a room and learning what each other is doing.
And even if that is the agenda for that meeting is like, hey, I didn't know you were doing this, or I didn't know you had a van, and I've been needing a van for the last 10 years. There is power in just having a community come together, cross sectors, to sit in a room and talk about an issue.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: If you haven't already, check out our previous episodes this season and follow along as we continue to tell stories that connect and inspire.
And that does it for this episode. We're glad you could join us. Production assistance by Cheyenne Salazar, Kate Rooney and Daryl Wiggins. And thanks as always to the Hogg foundation for its support.
If you have comments or anything that you would like to share about the podcast, feel free to reach out to us at into the fold Austin UTexas. Edu.
Thoughtful comments will be acknowledged during a future episode.
You're my hour, Mental Health Matters.
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Transition Music by Antony Rajakov.
And taking us out now is Anna's Good Vibes by our good friend Anna Harris.
Thanks for joining us.
