Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Into the Fold is part of the Texas Podcast Network, the Conversations Changing the World, brought to you by the University of Texas at Austin. The opinions expressed in this podcast represent the views of the hosts and guests and not the University of Texas at Austin.
Hi, welcome to into the the Mental Health Podcast. I am your host, Sylvia Blume, and today we are delighted to bring you episode 173, the Heart of Social Workers and Their Role in Mental Health Care.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: I'm also just a person. I'm here to help, but I also don't have all the answers. But I want to be here with you and make sure you receive the care that you deserve.
It's again, reimagining how we think about mental health care and that it's not just, oh, this person needs therapy. It can be that and so much more and is going to be really specific to the stressors that they're facing in their life.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: We are honored to have Katherine Wilsnack with us today. Katherine is a doctoral candidate at the University of Texas at Austin Steve Hicks School of Social Work. She earned her BS in Psychology from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a Master's in Social work from the University of Pennsylvania School of Social Policy and Practice. Her research interests include oncology, cancer, genomics, rare disease, end of life and palliative care, caregiver support, aging, grief, loss, and family bereavement.
Hi, Katherine, welcome.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Hi, Sylvia. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Of course. You previously served as a mental health clinician, correct?
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Yes, that's correct.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Fantastic. What drew you to kind of pursue social work in academia and make that switch?
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a, that's a really good question. So I've always had a love for, for the hybridity of clinical work and research work. So during my master's program while at Penn, I worked with a faculty member doing some qualitative research. And that was really my first exposure to doing research in a social work setting. And I really enjoyed that and wanted to continue in some way. However, my heart is also very much in clinical work. Getting to meet new people, work with families. You know, you just meet so many different walks of life and it's. You just learn so much and it's incredibly rewarding. So I knew I always wanted to do both in some capacity. So that being said, after my, my, my graduation at Penn, I went to complete a Postmaster's fellowship at the National Cancer Institute. So there I did research, but at the same time, I also was hired as a mental health clinician at a private Practice in Maryland, I saw therapy clients part time while also doing research full time. However, the blend of the work was always at the heart of both of my practices in research and clinical spaces. So in my own practice, I very much see how what we find and learn and research we can use in practice to really help our, you know, our clients. At the same time, what we see in practice, in clinical practice, with our clients can really provide some insight onto where research can be helpful and is very much needed. So that, I think, was really the spark that allowed me to pursue research more full time. You know, I did practice for about five years part time, um, and it really wasn't until my dissertation that I really had to make the switch full time to finish my. My re. You know, to finish my PhD program. However, I love clinical work at every opportunity, and I still very much see that being part of my career plans.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Long term, having been on kind of both sides, both social work and mental health care. For those who don't know a whole lot about social work, how do social workers typically collaborate with other mental health care professionals? Like, where do they fit in that kind of puzzle?
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a great question, because I think a lot of people have that confusion about the role and the purpose that social work has, and not just, you know, other professions, but also clients who we serve. I think some social work practices tend to be stigmatized, as I've had quite a few clients of my own, you know, say things like, oh, you know, I thought social workers were people who only worked in like, you know, child services or child protective services, things like that. And so there's definitely some misconception around the profession in general.
However, where I think social work is, you know, strongest is that we have our whole teaching philosophy and where our, you know, underpinnings for how, you know, we learn social work practice largely stems from interdisciplinary practice.
And so I think that is where our role is also very strong, is on interdisciplinary teams and how we communicate with other professions that work towards optimizing, you know, the. The person who we are caring for their goals and their wishes. And so I can speak to a little bit about, you know, what my role was in a hospital setting, since that's where I was also trained. I worked with a lot of medical staff members such as, like, physicians, nurses, physical therapists, occupational therapists. And while they were. Sorry, my dog.
While. While they were largely responsible for attending to the medical needs, social work is primarily responsible for the psychosocial needs of individuals and not just for, you Know, taking care of them in that way, but also really advocating for them and their psychosocial needs, that being, you know, mental health related, that being reintegrating back into the community after whatever event led them to having to receive care in the first place, advocating for, you know, anything else that's related to their quality of life, such as financial needs, social needs, spiritual needs, anything like that. So I think largely that's where communication comes from. You know, I would also say though, there's also other, like conferences and professional, you know, member communities that social work also has a good presence in.
So I would say interdisciplinary teams for sure, probably, probably being the primary means of collaboration and again, advocating for the role that social work also brings, but the great value that it brings as well.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Would you say there is a unique approach that social workers take to mental health care as opposed to like psychiatrists, psychologists?
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's, that's another really good question because.
Yeah, so I'll say that I think each discipline has a unique approach and I can just speak to the approaches that I think set social work apart from other disciplines. Some of those being how social work takes on a very holistic approach.
While we do a lot of clinical work, we also really consider the person beyond the clinical setting and something called person and environment approach, which is a really strong practice in social work, both clinical practice and research practice. Social work really hones in on not only individual characteristics, what the presenting problems are, but also beyond the person, like I said. So what's their living situation like? What is, what are the other cultural, you know, contexts at play? What are other situational factors, such as the time period, you know, like really taking on not just the very micro parts of somebody's life, but also experience to a macro point of view of considering, you know, policies that could systemically also be affecting somebody, while also taking a look at very specific things within their environment that could be having a direct effect on somebody, so that being primarily one of them again. And I think that also lends to the advocacy piece that social workers really practice too, in terms of advocating for our clients needs in a way that recognizes them beyond, you know, what might they need individually, but what might they need on a community level, what might they need on a state level, what might they need on a policy level? I also think social work really takes on a strengths based approach, and that's not something I've necessarily seen as common across other disciplines. And maybe they might call it something different, but I really do think at least the role that I've played, played on interdisciplinary teams especially. I've seen social work really highlighting how even though a person might be in need of care, that doesn't mean that they don't have strength already to build off of, to optimize their goals, to help them reach their potential in the way that they've expressed they wanted to. So again, really honing in on like the person's wishes and something that we. And one of our values, you know, based in our disciplines is something called right to self determination. So really respecting that is as humans, regardless of discipline, social work included, we are people who will have a lot of biases, we'll have a lot of our own opinions and beliefs. And I think social work especially does a really good job of suspending all of those or at least trying to for the sake of what's going to be best for our client and what they are telling us and really trusting them that they are somebody who knows themselves better than anybody else, no matter what glimpse of, you know, their life that we get when we meet with them. So taking on a strengths based approach, I think social work does really well. You know, showing other people like just because this person is in need doesn't diminish who they are as people. And we really need to value the strengths and the advantages that they do bring to this situation. And how can we really, you know, focus on these to help them with their problem that they, you know, like I said, are presenting with. And I think lastly, you know, the other thing that comes to mind is meeting the client where they're at. That's also a really common phrase that I've heard among social work and again, not as commonly across other disciplines where it's recognizing like again, we're all people, we all have free will and are, you know, the right to choose. And so meeting the client where they're at is really just again identifying what they're ready for, what they're able to do and working within those parameters to, to help actualize their goals and their wishes while again suspending what we might think would be best and trusting that, you know, this is where they're at in life, this is what we can offer and we will work with them along the way.
So that's another thing too. I do think social work offers a lot of, or at least tries to within the systems that we work long term support because I think we get to know clients in a very different way that really builds human connection and that lends itself to long term relationships. Especially in a therapy setting where I've had clients who I've known for over a year or two years. And so really getting to build those emotionally intimate connections. I think social work does really well at and is not always as common across other disciplines.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: I know oncology and cancer are two of your research interests. How would you say mental health plays an impact in the healing process?
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Definitely. So oncology is, I think anybody who has come into contact with oncology care that, you know, being diagnosed with cancer, we really need to treat that as a traumatic event.
That being a stressor that can completely alter somebody's life in a very traumatic way that we should approach with a trauma informed perspective. Right now, what I can speak to, maybe more recent work that I've done and where I've really seen this come to life in oncology is my dissertation.
My dissertation has focused on cancer survivors who developed a substance use disorder or addiction, however they prefer to call it after being diagnosed with cancer. And the mental health impacts are immediate, short term and long term.
There are some folks who I've spoken to where mental health was approached in an okay way and there were some people who I've spoken to and I think this speaks to a vast majority of cancer patients and survivors where mental health was not taken care of as adequately. And what I mean by that is I don't know if for some people it was, you know, a lack of, it was a shortage of mental health clinicians, it was mental health clinicians who were not as familiar with oncology specific topics or substance use specific topics.
And it was not treating it as trauma as, as cancer should be treated. I've seen cancer survivors have a experience, a lack of access to informed mental health care. Then I've also met cancer survivors who have had some really great mental health care in terms of how do we treat cancer, not just in the active treatment phase, but how do we also treat it in the long term, that primarily being through survivorship care. And so really thinking about how just because somebody survives cancer, it doesn't mean that they're free, they're in the clear, everything goes back to normal. If anything, that's really the time period where we should be paying the most attention to where mental health is needed. As this person just arrived a life altering, life threatening event, we should not expect them to just go back to their reality and think everything's okay. Because again, the short term and the long term impacts of cancer vary from person to person, but certainly require support.
And support can come in the form of mental health care, of traditional talk therapy. Group therapy, support groups, interventions like that.
But mental health care can also come in community form.
It can come in terms of access to cancer specific resources. It can come in the form of having a strong support system, having access to adequate survivorship care, having a good relationship with your health care providers who take your fear of your occurrence seriously, who follow up and make you feel seen and heard as this is something serious, this is something I'm very afraid of. And knowing that fear really extends through the rest of people's lives, cancer survivors lives.
Mental health care is really multifaceted in that way, in my opinion. So while talk therapy is great, I also want to recognize people aren't always ready for that. Like I said earlier, meeting the client where they're at and recognizing that this is not a sprint, that this is very much an endurance and a long term game that we are in and really reimagining how we think about mental health care for cancer survivors. And I think this extends to other populations that my colleagues and other people work at work with in social work. Of what unique stressors do populations face? You know, what unique stressors do individuals face? How do these stressors affect the individual at their individual level? How do they affect them at the community level? How do these stressors affect them at a systemic level? And recognizing what stressors are disproportionate to individual coping capacity and normalizing that people shouldn't have to figure all this stuff out by themselves. It can also be a failure of systems and really normalizing that approach and just again, humanizing yourself in the process of like, I'm also just a person, I'm here to help, but I also don't have all the answers. But I want to be here with you and make sure you receive the care that you deserve can be really impactful. So I think it's again reimagining how we think about mental health care and that it's not just, oh, you know, this person needs therapy. It can be that and so much more. And is going to be really specific to the stressors that they're facing in their life.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: I like that idea of very, very personal attention and a personalized approach.
My final question, we may have some listeners who are either considering a career in social work or they're thinking about a career change, going back to school.
What is the number one thing you would tell someone to consider or think about before enrolling in a program?
[00:18:19] Speaker B: That's a really good question. You know, I, I should take more time to think about myself and you know, How I've ended up, where I've ended up. I don't regret any of the academic choices that I've made as I believe they've all brought me here to this moment. And I've gotten to meet and work with some amazing communities that have really impacted my career. One thing I think I like to emphasize the most is, you know, where I received my degree. I don't think I am that much of a different social worker compared to somebody who received their degree in a part time way, in a, you know, in an online way and at a different university.
I think that's one of the more beautiful parts about social work is that it is very flexible and it is wide reaching of what you can do with the degree.
So my biggest piece of advice is to really know your heart and the work that you do.
I think when you know your heart and the work that you do or that you would want to do, everything else is really just more of a mean as like everything else is really just more of a means of how to get there.
And you know, I don't want to oversimplify it either. Like, you know, just because you, you, you know, you love or you, you know, your heart feels really compelled to work with a certain population or you've had certain lived experiences that also really shape you and who you are and what you want to do, there will be hurdles to overcome. But again, when you really feel like you have the heart and what you do or know what drives you, it will get you through it.
And it's normal to wonder about that, to be curious about that, to feel like you lost it at times and more so attune yourself to, you know, social work is a helping profession, it's an undisturbed profession, it's an underrepresented profession, it's an underfunded profession. So you're going to come across a lot of stressors test you as to, you know, why am I doing this? And if your why is strong enough, your why is really grounded in love in the most simplistic way is, you know, what I can is how I phrase it right now.
You will find a way to do the tedious coursework to get your, you know, hours in for your, your field placements to work with other people who might be a challenge to work with. Because you will also meet amazing people to work with. You will meet amazing clients and communities that you will serve.
So really knowing your why, if you know your why, I think a lot of things will fall into place. And again, really just look at it as more of a what's my means to get there? Is that getting a social work degree? Is that getting a master's degree? Is that getting a bachelor's degree? So I think that is probably the most simplified but honest answer that I can give is that is something that has really served me and my career is knowing the why of why I do this and building relationships.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Thank you so much. That's a wonderful sentiment and thank you so much. Thank you for joining us today. This has been a wonderful conversation.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I love everything that the Hog foundation does for the community is that it partners so the people like myself, who it is, help support through, you know, my own dissertation research. So it's really been a treat and.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: That does it for this episode. We're glad you could join us. If you have comments or anything you would like to share about the podcast, feel free to reach out to us at into the foldustin utexas. Edu. Especially thoughtful comments will be acknowledged during a future episode. Just as taking care of ourselves enhances our ability to help others, so it is as well that by helping others we enhance our own resilience. Please leave us a review and subscribe to us on your preferred podcast platform. Thanks for joining us.
